Date: Fri Dec 08, 1995 2:06 am CST From: Moderator of conference justice.polabuse EMS: INTERNET / MCI ID: 376-5414 MBX: bwitanek@igc.apc.org TO: * David Beiter / MCI ID: 635-1762 Subject: Re: Fuhrman Tapes Posted: menache@surf.com Thu Dec 7 19:22:47 1995 > I hadn't realized it but these came from your pol-abuse mailing list to begin with! Anyway here ya go (again...) Sorry about the HTML markup but I cut it from my page html://www.surf.com/~menache/furhman.html1. describing reaction to insults 2. describing arrest for outstanding traffic warrant 3. describing arrest of a narcotics user 4. describing use of deadly force in arrests 5. explaining reasons he shoots to kill, regardless of department policy 6. describing the revenge for killing policemen 7. describing the manufacturing of probable cause for arrest 8. describing the difference between field interrogation techniques taught in the academy and those actually utilized) 9. Describing how police officers cover up the unlawful use of force 10. describing necessity for police officers to be willing to lie 11. suggesting revenge against those who opposed used [sic] of police chokeholds 12. describing police officer partner punishing suspect he can't arrest by destroying property 13. describing police officer partner tearing up driver's license 14. describing providing testimony for events he did not witness 15. describing use of coercive interrogation techniques 16. describing selective use of baton in certain areas of the city) 17. (. . . describing beating of suspects 18. (. . . describing basis for stopping an automobile Will Furhman be busted for his actions? On police misconduct Detective Mark Fuhrman testified to being the first officer to observe a spot of blood on the defendant's Bronco automobile, as well as the glove allegedly found behind defendant's Rockingham residence, although these observations occurred after he had been removed as a Detective in charge of this investigation. Cross examination focused on the possibility that detective Fuhrman had moved or planted any evidence in this case, which he flatly denied. In an in limine ruling, the court held he could be questioned about allegations in a letter sent to defense counsel by Kathleen Bell, that Officer Fuhrman said : "When he sees a "nigger" (as he called it) driving with a white woman, he would pull them over. I asked would he if he didn't have a reason, and he said that he would find one." In his testimony at trial, Detective Fuhrman testified as follows: In 1985 or '86, were you a police officer in Westwood? I worked the foot beat, yes, in Westwood, yes. Did you say while in the recruiting station at any time during those years that when you see a nigger driving with a white woman, you pull them over? No. Do you recall anyone asking you if you didn't have a reason to pull them over, what would you do? I don't recall anybody ever asking me that question, sir. Did you ever make a statement that if you needed a reason, you would find one? No. Would you remember Detective Fuhrman, if you had used the language that we have just reviewed? Yes. That is important enough language to you that it would impress itself on your memory as did the meeting with the Simpson's in '85, is that correct? Yes, sir. Statements made by detective Fuhrman at approximately the same times as the alleged Kathleen Bell incident about his willingness to lie, to plant evidence, to frame innocent persons and to cover up police misconduct would be directly relevant to his credibility. The "Fuhrman Tapes" contain eighteen examples of Detective Fuhrman admitting participation in police misconduct, or offering approving comments with respect to misconduct. This misconduct includes illegal use of deadly force, beating suspects to extract confessions, planting evidence, framing innocent persons, and lying or covering up misconduct by others. ================================================================= 1. describing reaction to insults). "What do you do if someone calls you a mother fucker, what do you do? (Laughs). Are there witnesses or are there not. Let's set the stage. O.K. If there are witnesses, what do you do? Say you're in front of the show, telling people in line to move out of the street, and it's kind of a minor situation. Somebody in line calls you a mother fucker, or a pig - (Flatly) Goes to jail. He goes to jail. Interfering. He was interfering with my duties. 148 of the Penal Code. So you immediately take him to jail? Of course, he's so shocked, that he immediately won't do, so he immediately gets thrown on the ground, so he immediately gets stuck. I don't take anything in that uniform that I wouldn't take out of that uniform. (McKinny Transcript No. 1, p. 22) ================================================================== 2. describing arrest for outstanding traffic warrant). Well, I'm sure he will have, because if he's got that attitude, he's probably gotten several tickets from policemen, and he hasn't taken care of them. He's going to go to the station, because he won't have any identification because when he gives me his driver's license, I'll just rip the fucker up. Have you done that before? (Nods.) (McKinny Transcript No. 1, p. 23.) ================================================================== 3. describing arrest of a narcotics user So if that's considered falsifying a report, and if some hype, you know says, Ah, you know whatever, I shot two days ago, and you find a mark that looks like three days ago, pick the scab, squeeze it, looks like serum's coming out, as if it were hours old. It's a hard find. You can't just find the mark, cause he's down. His eyes don't lie. That's not falsifying a report. That's putting a criminal in jail. That's being a policeman. (McKinny Transcript No. 1, p. 25) ================================================================= 4. ( . . . describing use of deadly force in arrests). Where would this country be if every time a sheriff went out with a posse to find somebody who just robbed and killed a bunch of people, he stopped and talked to them first. To make sure they had guns. Tried to take them -- they shot them in the back. We still should be shooting people in the back. It's just that you've got to hire people who are capable of doing it. and capable of figuring out who the bad guys are. (McKinny Transcript No. 1, p. 25) ================================================================ 5. explaining reasons he shoots to kill, regardless of department policy) And I don't want them to think I'm a coward. So sometimes that'll stimulate me to do what I have to do, and plus I like it when people are trying to hurt me, because there is something that is on the line, something that's important in my life, and I like working under pressure. And it's good. It feels good because I accomplish something. And you look around and say, most of these pukes couldn't do it. It's control, power, whatever you want to call it. But it's something that's inherent in only some people. I listen to liberals talk, and I can't believe that someone who is educated, or even just opens their eyes for one day can think what they think. What are some of the things that really annoy you when you hear liberals talk? Do you people -- don't you shoot to wound'em? No, we shoot to kill'em. Now the department says we shoot to stop, not kill which is horseshit. The only way you can stop somebody is to kill the son of a bitch. And what's the big deal? If you've got a reason to shoot somebody, you've got a reason to kill him. (McKinny Transcript No. 1, pp. 27-28) ================================================================ 6. describing the revenge for killing policemen Recidivism is unbelievable. There's a guy walking around right now who has killed two policemen, eyewitnesses[sic] by their partners who were wounded. So he's shot 4 policemen. He hacked a girl to death with a machete. So that's 5 people. He did 8 years in prison. He's walking around. He goes to U.C.L.A. What's he doing at U.C.L.A.? Taking some courses? Now you want me to tell you why he's alive? Because we didn't kill him. No, if I would have arrested the son of a bitch I would have killed him. If I ever see the son of a bitch and we're alone, I would kill him. How can you get away with that. If there's nobody except him and me, dead men tell no tales. See, he killed two policemen. I have an obligation if I ever have the opportunity, I should kill him. And that's all there is to it. Say you were working with a partner who saw you do that. Can't do that. You gotta have a partner that's like your brother. McKinny Transcript No. 1, pp. 30-31. ================================================================== 7. describing the manufacturing of probable cause for arrest So under what did you arrest him? I didn't arrest him under anything, just took him to the station, ran him for prints, gave them to the detectives to compare with what they've got in the area. I'll probably arrest a criminal that way. So you're allowed to just pick somebody up that you think doesn't belong in an area and arrest him? I don't know. Well, I mean, you did, so -- I don't know. I don't know what the Supreme Court or the Superior Court says, and I don't really give a shit . . . if I was pushed into saying why I did it, I'd say suspicion of burglary. I'd be able to correlate exactly what I said into a reasonable cause for arrest. (McKinny Transcript No. 1, pp. 33-34) ============================================================== 8. describing the difference between field interrogation techniques taught in the academy and those actually utilized See if you did the things that they teach you in the academy, you'd never get a fucking thing done. I'll split up the people, that's fine. You split up two suspects and you say, where you from? What's his name? That's great, but if he doesn't tell you, you give him a shot in the stomach with your stick and say: Listen boy, I'm talking to you, and you better give me some attention or I'm gonna fucking drop you like a bad habit. Now can you tell me a female you see doing that? No. Those are field interrogation techniques for assholes. Well, where did you learn those field interrogation techniques, if you didn't learn them in the academy? Well, probably about 8 years old. You learn that when somebody pushes, if you can't beat 'em face on, you sneak up behind 'em and just grab 'em by the hair and keep punchin' em' until they go down. I learned that a long time ago, and when I went into the service it's the same thing. I only go so far, and they teach you, you don't have to go. No, you don't have to let anybody push you. Somebody touches you, you just knock 'em down. I mean, that's all there is to it. You get in the academy, and I thought the police academy was fun. I got to work out on duty, get to wrestle, get to eat up here, nice pine trees, restaurant. (McKinny Transcript No. 1, pp. 36-37) ============================================================ 9. Describing how police officers cover up the unlawful use of force But that gives a lot of credibility, when you've got a real heavy investigation. We had one. I had 66 allegations of brutality: AEW, under color of authority, assault and battery under color authority. Torture, all kinds of stuff. Two guys, well, there was four guys. Two of my buddies were shot and ambushed, policemen. Both alive and I was first unit on the scene. Four suspects ran into a 2nd story in a apartment projects -- apartment. We kicked the door done. We grabbed a girl that lived there, one of their girlfriends. Grabbed her by the hair and stuck a gun to her head, and used her as a barricade. Walked up and told them: `I've got this girl, I'll blow her fucking brains out, if you come out with a gun.' Held her like this -- threw the bitch down the stairs -deadbolted the door -- Let's play, boys. Can we use that in the story? It hasn't been 7 years. Statute of limitations. I have 300 and something pages internal affairs investigation just on that one incident. I got several other ones. I must have about 3000 or 4000 pages of internal affairs investigations out there. Anyway, we basically tortured them. There was 4 policemen, 4 guys. We broke 'em. Numerous bones in each one of them. their faces were just mush. They had pictures on the walls, there was blood all the way to the ceiling with finger marks like they were trying to crawl out of the room. They showed us pictures of the room. It was unbelievable, there was blood everywhere. All the wall, all the furniture, all the floor. It was just everywhere. These guys, they had to shave so much hair off, one guy they shaved it all off. Like 70 stitches in his head. You know, knees, cracked, oh it was just - - We had 'em begging that they'd never be gang members again, begging us. So with 66 allegations. I had a demonstration in front of Hollenbeck station chanting my name. Captain had to take them all into roll call, and that's where the internal affairs investigation started. It lasted 18 months. I was on a photo lineup, suspect lineup. I was picked out by 12 people. So I was pretty proud of that. I was the last one interviewed. The prime suspect is always the last one interviewed. They didn't get any of our unit - 38 guys - they didn't get one day. The custodian -- the jailer of the Sheriff's Department got 5 days, since he beat one of the guys at the very end . . . Boy, you know, and started. Immediately after we beat those guys, we went downstairs to the garden hose in the back of the place. We washed our hands. We had blood all over our legs, everything. With a dark blue uniform, you know, and in the dark, you can't see it. But when you get in the light and it looks like somebody took red paint and painted it all over you. We had to clean our badges off with water, there was blood all over 'em. Our face [sic] had blood on them. We had to clean all that. We checked each other, then we went our, we were directing traffic. And the chiefs and everything were coming down because two officers were shot, `Where are the suspects?' `I think some of these officers over here got them,' they took them to the station. Somehow nobody knows who arrested them. We handcuffed them and threw them down two flights of stairs, you know. That's how they came. That's where a lot of people saw, you know. `Look out! Here comes one. O my God, look out, he's falling! I mean you don't shoot a policeman. That's all there is to it. But anyway, the point is -- Well, they know I did it. They know damn well I did it. There's nothing they could do, but I could. Most of those guys worked the 77th together. We were tight. I mean, we could have murdered people and got away with it. We were tight. We all knew what to say. We didn't have to call each other at home, and say, `Okay.' We all knew what to say. Most real good policemen understand, that they would love to take certain people, and just take them to the alley and blow their brains out. Certain people. All gang members for one. All dope dealers for two. Pimps, three. There's probably your three most worthless types of people in a large city. (Tapes No. 2, pp. 3-6; McKinny Transcript No. 2, pp. 32-35) ================================================================= 10. describing necessity for police officers to be willing to lie Well, I really love being a policemen [sic] when I can be a policemen [sic]. It's like my partner now. He's so hung up with the rules and stuff. I get pissed sometimes and go, `You just don't fucking even understand. This job is not rules. This is a feeling. Fuck the rules, we'll make them up later . . . He's a college graduate, a Catholic college. He was going to be a fucking priest. He's got more morals than he's got hairs on his head. He doesn't know what to do about it. What do you mean he's got more morals? He doesn't know how to be a policeman. (whispers) `I can't lie' . . . Oh, you make me fucking sick to my guts. You know, you do what you have to do to put these fucking assholes in jail. If you don't, you fucking get out of the fucking game. He just wants to be one of the boys. Doesn't want to play -- pay the dues. So, how does he deal with it? He doesn't lie. Well, I know for a fact in this Internal Affairs investigation, he has a 10-day suspension. He'll roll. I'm sorry. I don't understand. He'll drop the dime on me, squeal, tell the truth. He won't take anytime . . . You serious? Not a policeman at heart. He's considered on the good guys. He won't take any suspension at all? He'll say . . . he didn't realize. He goes: `I got a wife and kid to think of.' I says, `Fuck you. Don't tell me because you've got a wife and kid . . . You're either my partner all the way or get the fuck out of this car. We die for each other. We live for each other. That's how it is in the car. You lie for me, up to six-month suspension. Don't ever get fired for me. Don't get indicted for me. But you'll take six months for me cause I'll take it for you. If you don't get the fuck out of here . . . It shouldn't have to be said. (Tape No. 3 pp. 3-4; McKinny Transcript No. 3, pp. 3-4) ================================================================== 11. suggesting revenge against those who opposed used [sic] of police chokeholds) See, I still don't understand who promulgated or perpetrated it. There was a black coalition in the south against police then. There is the ACLU, the NAACP . . . . The ACLU should be bombed, and everybody should be killed in it. They do no good. They are the cancer of society. (Tape No. 4 pp. 31; McKinny Transcript No. 4, p. 37) ================================================================== 12. describing police officer partner punishing suspect he can't arrest by destroying property He's the kind of guy that get's some jerk off like some Mexican, you know, riding a skateboard from some patty cake, but you can't really arrest him for anything. So while I'm talking to the kid, Tom's putting the skateboard underneath the tire of the police car. `Okay, let's go.' Something goes bump. `What was that?' `Don't worry about it.' (Tape No. 5 pp. 12-13; McKinny Transcript No. 5, p. 10) =================================================================== 13. describing police officer partner tearing up driver's licenses He's constantly tearing up driver's licenses. You do that, he probably got that from you.' No, he has his own style, he goes, `Give me your driver's license . (Motions - Rips it up.) `You're a fucking jerk, you get out of here. Next time you're driving without a license, it's my car.' If officers tear up your driver's license, what can that person do? Staffling. Staffling? You stole something, although it's not that person's property. It's property of motor vehicles. You can just deny it, can't you? So long as you don't have any witnesses . . . Then you've got other officers that are kind of part of the group. They only want to go so far, and they are -- not chicken up to the supervisors but -- no problem, real helpful types that make you sick to your stomach almost, but they're still decent guys and you can count on them. Real helpful. They want to be part of the group, but they're climbing, they want to go somewhere. And most of us are going no where. And most of us are going nowhere. (Tape No. 5 p. 13; McKinny Transcript No. 5, pp. 10-11) ============================================================ 14. ( . . . describing providing testimony for events he did not witness) I've been on several calls in West L.A., and I'm the third or fourth car, and I end up handling the whole situation. You have a bunch a munchkins out in front with their guns. What are you doing? The call is on the other side of the house. You know, the guy broke in here, everybody is waiting where he broke in, like he'll go out the door, you know. I mean, it's ridiculous, you know, and they're sitting there So, I just go in, kick the door, the guy's going out the garage, I beat the shit out of him. He's just a bloody mess, handcuffed him, there. I'm leaving. Thank you. (In a high-pitched female voice.) This is embarrassing. Then you go to court, and I'm the only one who knows how to testify. You have five officers on the case and I'm the only one there that knows how to testify. The DA goes, `ya, but you were the fourth car, but would you testify?' `Ya, but did you see -- I saw it. Don't worry about it, ya. I say him do that, ya, ya. Okay, good-bye. Why do I have to do everything. That's what it is coming down to. I have to fight the guy; I have to catch the guy; I have to keep the guys mouth shut at the station because they're not going to do it for a female. I can just walk by and go: shut up or I'm going to kick your face in. (Tape No. 6A pp. 3-4; McKinny Transcript No. 6-1, p. 44) ============================================================= 15. describing use of coercive interrogation techniques When I was working gang, we used to get a murder. And you'd know which gang did it, but they wouldn't talk. So, I would go pick up three or four gang members and bring them to the station, take one in the basement and beat the dogshit out of him, without even asking him a question. Bring him up and sit him down. He's bleeding, face is all puffed up, got hurt. Next guy, take him downstairs. `O.K., who shot at him?' That's how you get information. what is this patty cake, patty cake shit psychology. Well, we have to teach our officers some Spanish. I work Mexican gangs, and I don't know how to speak Spanish. How do they do that. When they speak Spanish, no comprende, slap them upside the head. Speak English! I'm an English teacher, just like that. That's police work. That's being able to pick out the people. That type of treatment is necessary. (Tape No. 6A p. 4; McKinny Transcript No. 6-1, pp. 44-45) ================================================================ 16. describing selective use of baton in certain areas of the city) You have to be a switch hitter. You have to be able to look at your area and at how you talk to people. Look at how deal with things and what you can and can't do even with a criminal. You can go out in Bel Air, and somebody gives you a hard time in broad daylight, and slap them. Damn it, I want to know what's going on! You just don't do that. I mean, it's obvious. But when you're down south end, Watts, the metropolitan area, when you're on skid row, you use your stick more than your mouth. You don't care. Don't try to tell people to go here, go there. You just use your stick, they'll move. They see no problem with that. They're where they are not supposed to be. The one problem that I see, that a lot of criminals are just as big as you, and then you get your officers that are 5'7, 150 lbs. The criminal is going to say exactly what you're saying to them . . . Absolutely . . . . We were in the village last weekend. And I saw him the whole night, getting in other officers' faces -- "What midget officers you've got. I went up to him and said: `Move, move. I'm clearing this street out.' He said, `No'. I just boom, stick right in the gut. `You hit me with that stick -- `You ain't gonna do anything boy. You wanna do something, let's go.' I put my stick away, let's go! You know, all his buddies there -- I said `let's go, you're the same size I am.' You want to go? You want to get down. Let's get down.' They back off, but he had to get jabbed in the ribs because he's been buffaloing so many policemen for so long. All of a sudden he was in shock Tape No. 6A, pp. 4-5; McKinny Transcript No. 6-1, pp. ============================================================= 17. describing beating of suspects What kind of life or death situations have you been in? Fights, shootings. Two of my partners were ambushed. How did you get out of them? Well, the two guys were ambushed. We came up after that, and all the suspects ran. Both officers were down, and my partner checked the officers. They were both still alive. We called an ambulance. I ran after the suspects. They went into the house. My partner got back to me. We went in. We were just pissed. We were not going to wait for SWAT. Grabbed the girl, put a gun to her head. Used her for a shield. Walked up. They wanted to give up. Locked the door. They didn't give up. I beat the hell out of the last. One died. Four of them. It's four on two, that's fair play. But they -- we could have found a gun. Did you have a gun on you? Oh yeah. (Tape No. 6B, p. 1; McKinny Transcript No. 6-1, pp. 33-34) =================================================================== 18. describing basis for stopping an automobile We all work in the same 10 square blocks every day. So, if I see a car that isn't usually there, it's either an asshole that doesn't belong there with his car, or an asshole that doesn't belong there with a car that isn't his. Either way, I'm going to stop it and find out what's going on." (McKinny Transcript No. 9, p. 11) AMSTERDAM NEWS REPORTS ON FUHRMAN INVESTIGATION: 11/18/95 A federal probe of former LA Detective Mark Fuhrman has been launched. While the nature of the probe is not yet known, the feds have several starting points. In taped interviews, Fuhrman spoke of his antics with other officers: capturing and beating suspects to a bloody pulp to the point of having to be hosed down to remove the blood. A tabloid probe reported that he attacked a detainee who spat on him and broke the detainee's s elbows and knees; Fuhrman's admission that he stopped Black motorists with white women to ticket them; a lawsuit by a Black Man, Joseph Britton, that charged that Fuhrman had planted a knife on him, a suit that was settled out of court for $100,000 before Fuhrman's OJ trial appearance; and Fuhrman's taped boastings of ties to a white supremacist group. The LA Times has reported that the feds will look at Fuhrman's police history. The Amsterdam News report states that the probe is also looking into a pattern of abuse or racism within the LAPD. Also, Assitant AG Deval Patrick of the Civil Rights Unit of the Justice Department is reportedly meeting with LAPD Chief Willie Williams. __ ___ __ /* |/* / ___ ____ ____ _ _____ / /_ ___ / _____ /*/|*/*/ / _ / __ / __ `// ___/ / __ / _ / ___/ /*/ /*/ / __// / / / /_/ // /__ / / / / __/(__ ) /*/ /*/ ___//_/ /_/__,_/ ___/ /_/ /_/___//____/ ____ __ __ ____ _ ___ ____ __ __ ____ ( _ ( )( )( _ ( ) / __)( _ ( )( )( _ )___/ )(__)( ) _ Fuhrman Takes Fifth When Questioned About Simpson Case Tuesday, April 30, 1996 / L.A. TIMES Former Los Angeles Police Det. Mark Fuhrman refused to answer questions Monday in a deposition for the wrongful-death lawsuit against O.J. Simpson. A source close to the case told Associated Press that he invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. The deposition was conducted at a golf course building in Rathdrum, Idaho. Simpson was acquitted last year of murdering his ex-wife Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend Ronald Goldman. The wrongful-death suit on behalf of the victims seeks to hold him liable in civil court. During the criminal trial, the now-retired Fuhrman testified that he discovered a bloody glove at Simpson's estate matching one found near the victims' bodies. He also denied ever using racial epithets. Later, the defense introduced tape recordings of Fuhrman using racial slurs in interviews with an aspiring screenwriter. Simpson's lawyers contended Fuhrman had a documented history of racism and may have planted the glove to frame their client. Copyright Los Angeles Times Posted in pol-abuse@igc.apc.org To subscribe, send this message: subscribe pol-abuse To this address: majordomo@igc.apc.org THE DAILY BRIEF from INTELLIGENT NETWORK CONCEPTS, INC. WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 2, 1996 * Former Los Angeles Police detective Mark Fuhrman is expected to enter a plea soon in a perjury case against him. - Fuhrman testified in the OJ Simpson murder case that he had not used racial slurs, but was contradicted with evidence from others.
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