Date: Sun Dec 10, 1995 8:55 pm CST From: David J Sussman EMS: INTERNET / MCI ID: 376-5414 MBX: djsussma@jupiter.acs.oakland.edu TO: * David Beiter / MCI ID: 635-1762 MR-Received: by mta STIM; Relayed; Mon, 11 Dec 1995 02:08:12 -0500 Alternate-recipient: prohibited Disclose-recipients: prohibited Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 20:00:00 -0500 (CDT) From: BRENDA JINKINS 383-4248 Subject: Norman Interview on Quinn To: cs@oak.oakland.edu Posting-date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 20:05:00 -0500 (CDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal X400-MTS-identifier: [;00702011215991/286101@TECVAX] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Sender: owner-cs@oak.oakland.edu Precedence: bulk Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 19:37:00 CDT From: "BRENDA JINKINS"@mr.stim.tec.tn.us Subject: Norman Interview on Quinn MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 00:00:00 CDT A1-type: DOCUMENT Forwarded: **************************************************************** The following is a Radio Interview between James Norman, formerly Senior Editor of Forbes Magazine and now with Media Bypass Magazine and Jim Quinn DJ of WRRK 96.9 FM in Pittsburgh. In this interview from December 7th, they discuss issues of national importance and STUNNING IMPACT. Essentially they give out the reason for Vincent Fosters Death, and the fact that the "resignations" of the Congresscritters is NOT for policy reasons but because they have been caught with millions in corrupt funds in Swiss Banks. Read this to learn what the "mainstream media" doesn't ever tell you... Quinn's Interview with Jim Norman QUINN: Jim Norman, former Senior Editor at Forbes Magazine, and currently writing for Media Bypass Magazine after having uncovered Caspar Weinberger's Swiss bank account (we do get punished for some of the truths we uncover,do we not?). Jim is on the phone with us this morning. Good Morning, Jim. NORMAN: Hi, how are you? QUINN: Pretty good. I want to give people a chance to get an idea of what it is we are going to launch into after 8 o'clock, and I want to give some background into this. Is it fair to say that since Iran Contra that the government has sort of been involved in the drug business? NORMAN: Yes, it goes way back before then, actually. It goes back even to the Vietnam War days -- remember the Golden Triangle, Laos, Cambodia and all that, Pakistan and Afghanistan, but it was always on a much smaller scale. What apparently happened was that in the 80s we got into it in a big way, basically nationalizing the wholesale importation of drugs from Central and South America. The idea was that we control it somehow that way; instead, it has just become the tail wagging the dog, I think. QUINN: It's become the funding source for just about anything that the government covertly wants to do, and for the moneys that various elements of the government don't want to ask the congress for, nor do they want congress to know about. NORMAN: Right. And it's an arms business, too. They are kind of all tied up together. QUINN: So it's arms and drugs? NORMAN: Right. QUINN: Kenneth Starr is currently our Whitewater prosecutor, and I have long said on this show that I find Ken Starrr interesting but also troubling in that there are many elements to the Whitewater scandal. Part of the laments have to do with banking and have to do with Madison Savings and Loan, check kiting, stuff that went on with the Arkansas Development Financial Authority, but basically there are really two elements -- there is Whitewater and then there is all the stuff with Mena Airport, Iran Contra, drugs into the country, various unexplained deaths, one of them Vince Foster, the possibility of espionage on the part of the first lady, and all of this lies behind a brick wall that Mr. Starr has been positioned upon to make sure that they get Clinton but that the fire doesn't burn past that wall; because on the other side of that wall are Republicans and Democrats. Am I right? NORMAN: That's right. He is not looking at Mena; he doesn't have the authority to from Janet Reno. He does have authority to look at the Vince Foster death, but I think only inasmuch as it relates to the Whitewater situation. The whole thing is hemmed in and beyond that is this whole national security blanket that has been thrown over big parts of this thing that you couldn't touch if you wanted to. QUINN: It's interesting, I find, that Dr. Henry Lee, who was part of the defense team for the Simpson trial, has ended up working on the Vince Foster affair. The word that I get is that he is going to say it was indeed a suicide. You have to remember something about Dr. Henry Lee -- he was, oddly enough, the guy that was called in to do some work on the Danny Casalaro death down in Martinsburg, WV back in the early nineties. Was it 1991? NORMAN: I think it was 1991. QUINN: This was that reporter that you may have heard about that was found dead in a motel room, supposedly from a self-inflicted wound, even though the papers (a year's worth of investigative reporting) were all missing. He was working on the story that he called the "octopus" and basically it's the same story that you are working on, isn't it? NORMAN: Yes, I know I'm talking to a lot of the same sources. Danny supposedly slashed his wrists twelve times, sometimes deep enough to cut the tendon. QUINN: Yeah, right. And his files were all missing. Sure, there's a suicide. Right. And they embalmed his body before they even had a chance to inform his parents that he was dead. So it's another "Arkanside." NORMAN: George Williamson, who is an investigative reporter out of San Francisco, has been working on that. He has come up with all kinds of stuff -- other witnesses that have disappeared, people in the hotel who just aren't there anymore -- disappeared mysteriously. QUINN: It's interesting. There are a lot of people who are witnesses to various deaths involved with this Arkansas crowd, Danny Casalaro for one. Also, the two young boys on the railroad tracks down in Arkansas who stumbled on the drug operation. A lot of the witnesses around that have met violent and untimely deaths as well. So here are a great deal of ugly people involved in this. We are going to get down to what it all means in terms of government corruption and scandal of immense proportions that touch both parties. This is really nonpartisan. The fact that I don't happen to like "President Pantload" doesn't have a whole lot to do with this; he was just sort of a guy who happened to be there with his hand out at the time. It all goes back to the late 70's, right Jim? NORMAN: Yeah, and even before that. Let's start with the early 80s when Bill Casey came into office in the CIA under Ronald Reagan. That's when our government decided to embark on this amazing and extremely unbelievably successful effort to spy on the world's banks. We did it! We have been spying on world banking transactions for more than a dozen years. The way we do it is by basically forcing foreign banks, wittingly or unwittingly, to buy bugged software and bugged computers that let our NSA (National Security Agency) which is the intelligence arm of the government, to basically surveil wire transfers all over the globe. QUINN: Let me ask you this. How do you sucker the rest of the banking community around the globe into buying the software that you are selling? NORMAN: First of all you sell to front companies like this company Systematics in Arkansas, now called Alltel Information Services. They had another company called Boston Systematics, an affiliate based in Israel mainly. There is Robert Maxwell, the UK publisher, who is fronting this stuff. There are a whole bunch of people fronting this. QUINN: Wait a minute, Robert Maxwell -- isn't he dead? NORMAN: Yeah, he is now. QUINN: Didn't he have an unfortunate accident? NORMAN: Fell off his yacht in the Atlantic Ocean somewhere. QUINN: Why, isn't that amazing! NORMAN: The tinkering of it was mainly putting back doors, just a few lines of code, that would allow somebody to dial into a computer without leaving any footprints, any audit trail that you were in there. Then you could go around and look around in files or you could collect information from a system without the user even knowing it QUINN: Now this software, which was originally called Promise, was stolen from a company called Inslaw by the Justice Department. It ended up somewhere, probably at E Systems or somewhere, and it was converted into banking software. It Started out as software designed to track prosecutorial cases around the country. My question is -- Why didn't Ed Meese just pay the damn bill, and none of this would ever have come to light! Danny Casalaro was chasing the stolen software when he stumbled on what it was being used for. NORMAN: Well, the trouble with it was that they bought it for use in the Justice Department, but they were going to use it all over the place. If they were paying royalties on it, Inslaw would know just how extensive the use was of the software, and they didn't want people to know how extensively it was going to be used. QUINN: I see... NORMAN: Plus, a lot of the profits from the resale of this went back into private profits. It was customized and resold to the intelligence community. It became sort of a basic platform database tracking system for most of our intelligence agencies and many of those abroad. The idea was "Well, we can all talk to each other now." In fact what it has allowed us to do is basically rifle through other people's data files abroad too, because the stuff was apparently being sold to foreign intelligence agencies and it was also bugged. We have other ways of basically surveilling and downloading foreign electronic databases. The whole computer world is much more porous and transparent than anybody wants you to believe. QUINN: There is a bank here that I know that uses this software right here in this town, and I'm sure that there is probably more than one. Everybody's got it. NORMAN: In some form or another. It goes under different names now. It's been modified many times. I think when Inslaw had it, it was a half million lines of code. I'm told now it's a couple of million lines anyway. It's gone through many, many modifications over the years. QUINN: This company, Systematics, which is I believe still 8% owned by Jackson Stevens at Stevens Inc., who, by the way, is one of the backers of Bob Dole -- how troubling is that? NORMAN: He is the co-chairman of Dole's finance committee. QUINN: That's right! Bob's in town -- Hi Bob -- You'd better explain this. You'd better explain Mena, too, Bob or it's going to follow you to the White House. Systematics, I understand, had an attorney who was kind of off the record doing work for them, named Vince Foster. Is that true? NORMAN: Yep, that's true. We've heard that from many, many sources now. In fact, Jim Leach's committee has established that pretty well with some of the investigation that they have done. Foster was a trusted deal guy for Stevens at the law firm. Although Foster never shows up officially as an attorney of record for Systematics, he was definitely in the loop, basically smoothing out things between Systematics and the NSA, which was the main government agency that was contracting for a lot of this stuff. QUINN: So this is how Foster got involved in intelligence, right. NORMAN: Yes, because there is heavy duty code and computer technology stuff involved here. Apparently, some time in the early 80s he developed this relationship with the State of Israel. In fact, some of the same handlers I am told were involved in the Jonathan Pollard case. They basically nurtured him and groomed him for many years and then bingo, they hit the jackpot -- he ended up in the White House. Apparently he convinced Hillary to help him out on some stuff. QUINN: So... what is Foster involved in? It's the mid 80s... NORMAN: Mid 80s. Foster is at the Rose Law Firm. Think of him as a high- level marketing guy between Systematics and the NSA. NSA -- they have all these spooky contracts that they are trying to find contractors for. Foster would have been sort of a go-between there. Plus Hillary was actually an attorney of record for Systematics back in 1978 when Stevens tried to take over the Financial General Bank shares in Washington. Those bank holding companies later became First American - Clark Clifford, Robert Altman, all that crowd. QUINN: Yeah, the BCCI thing. NORMAN: Stevens was fronting for the BCCI crowd and trying to take over this Washington Bank Holding Co. The SEC blocked him at the time, partly because one of the things he was insisting on was that this company Systematics which at that time was a tiny little thing in Arkansas, he was insisting that they be brought in to do all of the data processing for this multistate bank holding company in Washington. Hillary represented Systematics in that. Now the thing about Systematics at the time -- it was before they even got involved with the bank spying stuff. Abroad for many years, they had been what amounted to a Laundromat for covert funds for the CIA and the intelligence community, quite legally, probably. It was done for the national interest. Somebody had to move this money around and Systematics was in a perfect place to do it because they owned the computers and a whole bunch of small banks. They could move this money around electronically without the bankers even knowing about it necessarily, and it wouldn't go through the normal clearing houses. The regulators wouldn't see it. It would just crop up wherever the CIA needed it in whatever bogus front company account, and it was all just bits and bytes; it was a cyberbank -- it still is. QUINN: I'm here with Jim Norman, former Senior Editor at Forbes Magazine. You know, it's interesting, here is a guy who was with Forbes Magazine, a respected senior editor who figured probably this would be his life's work. All of a sudden, he finds himself a defrocked commando journalist working for Media Bypass Magazine out of what Evanston, Illinois, or somewhere in Indiana? NORMAN: Indiana. QUINN: Yeah, that's right. Now, I got a question. Before we get into Vince Foster in the mid 80s and Hillary Clinton's role in this, how did you get onto this whole scandal? Where did you walk through the door on this? NORMAN: I came in the back door completely. Look, I had no ax to grind here against Bill Clinton or the Administration. I hated covering politics. I thought it was all baloney. I'm just a business writer, and I never wanted to get enmeshed in this whole Whitewater/Vince Foster thing, but I started for a couple of years I had been following this oil company bankruptcy up in Stanford, Connecticut, because I had covered oil. This thing never made sense to me. There is no reason why this company went bust and, in fact, when I actually got into it and started redoing the oil trading transactions, the reason they lost money: they weren't losing it. They were hiding it. They were parking it off shore with another company that was financing arms sales to Iraq, cluster bombs and stuff like that all through the 80s. And, this Chilean arms dealer, Cardone, who was providing weapons, was also it turns out brokering some of the sales of this stolen software. Okay, that gets me into the software story. QUINN: So that gets you onto the Promise software, and you and Danny Casalaro are now on the same road. NORMAN: Right, and then in the process of that, I Started talking to a whole bunch of rather spooky, strange intelligence community characters, and I was sitting at a guy's living room down in Kentucky one day. He was sitting there in the middle of the night blowing smoke rings, and he said, "yo by the way, Vince Foster, he was under investigation." I said, "under investigation, for what?" And, he said, "well, it's spelled 'Espionage.'" BOINK!!...and that's how I got on this whole Vince Foster thing. QUINN: So that's how it happened? NORMAN: Yeah. QUINN: Okay, now here it is, the mid 80s. Vince Foster is working for Systematics, and he is coming into contact with the intelligence community. What is, how did Hillary Clinton and the Israeli Mossad and all of this come together and what happened? NORMAN: Well, I think that they had been...look the Israelis were key partners with us in this bank spying effort. This is a joint allied government effort, and the Israelis were one of the key front people in this in selling and supporting this software all over the world so that people weren't thinking they were getting the software directly from the U.S. You know, there was an Israeli front company used to sell this stuff to foreign banks. QUINN: Well, they sold it to the Moscow bank. I know that. NORMAN: Well, Systematics did, yeah, and Systematics got involved in supporting this stuff all over the world, a little company in Arkansas...go figure. Come on. QUINN: Yeah, really. NORMAN: I mean, main software people, they operate in New York and places like that and not out of Podonk, Arkansas. So, at any rate, the Israelis had ties into this whole thing all along, and, you know, they are our friends. We do give them a lot of stuff and share a lot of stuff. QUINN: Well, the whole idea was to track terrorist money, and the Israelis have a great interest in that, and rightly so. There is no problem here. NORMAN: The name of this problem was "follow the money for terrorist reasons," but once you set that up, you can do all kinds of stuff with it. I mean, we were spying on everybody's money. I think that's probably how we helped bust the Soviet Union. We found out just how deep their pockets were, where their money was, who we could bribe. You know, acting as a financial destruction of their society more than anything. QUINN: So, how does Foster get involved in espionage? NORMAN: Well, I think it was money. Money, money, money. And, especially you know with this whole political thing, it takes so much money to run for office. I mean, my theory is that the actual spending is probably twice of what anybody declares when you add up all of the soft dollars and everything. I think there is a tremendous need for money there, and they just weren't real cautious about where it was coming from. I think this thing about selling state secrets to the Israeli's and other countries was just a business. It was just for money. I don't think there was any ideology involved here at all, and it was one of many businesses. There is also insider trading going on here. There was the kickback on drugs and arms stuff and so the money has to go...you have to hide it some way so it goes into Swiss bank accounts. And Foster would have known that yeah we're tracking this money off shore, but there is such a blizzard of information that unless somebody knows exactly what they are looking for they would never find anything. They thought they could cover this up pretty well so Foster had...actually he had several accounts, and there was one in particular in this bank, bank at Villa Switsaria Italiano in Chaso on the Italian border. It is a little kind of a mafia kind of community there reputed, and so he was taking the money in there for the payments from the Swiss. He was going to Geneva every six or eight months, and his curious one-day trips - I don't think it was for sightseeing. QUINN: No. I'm sure he wasn't doing any real estate work for Arkansas. NORMAN: No. The whole thing about money laundering is...you know the money would go into a Swiss bank. Somebody would have to go physically and take it out and take it to a friendly bonded dealer or something like that, buy bearer bonds or other kinds of bonds or something that you could pledge as collateral for loans back in the states and turn it back into cash again legitimately, and so that is how money laundering works. Vince, in effect, was a bag man here because when they go to the White House all of a sudden they hit the jackpot. There was so much more goodies there, and, in fact, Deborah Goram, Foster's executive assistant, testified under oath that Foster had given her two, inch- thick ring binders from the National Security Agency to put in Bernie Nussbaum's safe in the White House. What were these binders? Well, I have talked to brokering experts on this stuff, and they say, "look, when you are talking NSA binders in the White House, you are talking mainly one thing, and these are the codes and protocol by which the President authenticates himself when he has to call up the Pentagon to say let's go nuke somebody." Now, what was Foster doing with these things? He had no business with them. He would have had no access to them. It would have to come from somebody with access to the Oval Office or the Presidential living quarters. QUINN: And, who would that be? NORMAN: Well, I think we know who we are talking about here. QUINN: We're talking about Hillary Clinton, aren't we? NORMAN: That's right. She has been under investigation in this whole thing, too, but I think that they had a strong case against Vince and not such a strong case against Hillary. But, you see what happened was and this is another whole part of the story as to how they got onto Foster. Basically, there was a team of computer hackers and computer intelligence guys in the CIA who were going through most databases. They found names there that they identified as being Foster and Hillary. They put them under surveillance actually before they went to the White House. I think it was between the election and the time that they went to the White House, and that's when the alarm bells went off. They had been surveilling these accounts for a while, and when Foster on July 1, 1993 bought a ticket to Geneva, a round-trip one-day ticket to Geneva, these guys said, "oops, he's going to take the money. We're going to beat him to it." And, they went in. They hacked their way into the bank and obtained the necessary authorization codes on this coded account for which no signature is required to withdraw money, by the way. QUINN: Right. NORMAN: They were able to effect their own technically legitimate wire transfer of this money back to the U.S. Treasury where it sits in a holding account escrowed for use by the CIA. QUINN: So, the CIA empties Vince Foster's Swiss bank account of its ill-gotten money. NORMAN: Yeah, actually it wasn't the CIA. It was this sort of renegade vigilante group of guys they called the Fifth Column that has been out doing this stuff. They don't take any of the money for themselves. The money goes to the... QUINN: They just do it for fun? NORMAN: The CIA only gets the money. It is escrowed for use by the CIA but only when the CIA gets rid of a bunch of its bad apples there who've got dirty hands from drug kickbacks, arms. QUINN: Let's pick this story up. There was a meeting just before Vince Foster died on the eastern shore of Maryland in which Webster Hubble, Vince Foster, and some others were present. Okay, this was just before Foster died. Pick up the story here. NORMAN: All right. Well, we mentioned July 1, 1993, Foster buys this round-trip ticket to Switzerland. They raid his account. They take out $2.73 million. Foster apparently calls up the bank to let them know he was coming. They say, "Oh, Vince don't you know you took the money out already?" Boing...that's when he found out he was under investigation. That's when he got so mysteriously depressed. It had nothing to do with editorials in the Wall Street Journal. He had his bank account raided big time, and he knew he was under surveillance, or he knew he was under investigation. And, that Started this curious chain of events. Webster Hubble testified that not so much Vince was depressed, but he was worried. He was afraid to use the White House telephones. The guy had heart palpitations. He couldn't sleep at night. His doctor gave him a prescription for sleeping pills. His sister tried to get him to talk to some psychiatrist. He never got in touch with them. Instead, he hired a high-powered lawyer in Washington, Jim Hamilton, this big deal white-collar crime fix-it guy who handles people who get hauled up for Congressional hearings. And, then there is this curious meeting the weekend before Foster died. He and his wife, Lisa, go down to the eastern shore of Maryland for a getaway weekend, and then, by coincidence, they meet Hubble and his wife down there. Hubble, also from the Rose Law Firm, at the time the country's de-facto top law enforcement law officer because Janet Reno in effect was taking her orders from Hubble. They go over to the estate of Michael Cardoza who is the son-in-law of Nathan Landau, a big deal Democratic fund-raiser, and Cardoza is also the head of Clinton's legal defense fund. Supposedly, this was all poolside chit chat. Baloney, it was damage control. They were trying to figure out how to contain this scandal from spreading to other people in the White House, and they were trying to lean on Vince to get him to, you know, cop a plea, go quietly, or shut up and don't talk about it. And, in fact, what my sources have told me is that there was actually a huge payment made to an account held by Lisa Foster with more than $286,000 on the Friday before that meeting. QUINN: Wait a minute, on the Friday before that meeting, Lisa Foster's bank account gets a deposit of $286 million? NORMAN: $286,000, yeah. QUINN: I'm sorry, yeah $286,000. Okay, so does she take it out? NORMAN: Well, I don't know what ever happened to that money. It is hard to tell where it came from even. It is all very mysterious to me, but it sure smells like hush money to me. It's like, "look Vince, don't worry, we'll take care of your money." QUINN: You don't know if she wrote a check on it? NORMAN: Well, I'm told that it came through the hands somehow of Sheila Anthony, who was Foster's sister and at the time she was a "congressional liaison" person at the Justice Department, whatever a congressional liaison is. QUINN: So she takes the money to Foster, and Foster turns it down? NORMAN: Well, no...I think he probably accepted it, or it went there. But, apparently, he was having second thoughts, I think. You know, on the Monday after they came back from this meeting, the records showed, the public records showed, that he has a parade of people coming by his office in the White House saying, "hey, how'd your weekend go, Vince? You cool with this? I mean, you on board with all of this? Everything okay?" you know. Then,... QUINN: A lot of very nervous people in the White House. NORMAN: That's right. Then, the day he died he had like a two-hour meeting with another person from the Arkansas contingent there. I think the problem was that they were afraid that Vince was going to talk or that he was going to crack under questioning, and here's a guy who was now, at this point, under intense surveillance. I mean, he had not only CIA counter intelligence people, but you had NSA. You had FBI surveilling him. There was a four-person IRS team we know was assigned to tail this guy, probably in connection with the money laundering aspect of the Swiss bank account. QUINN: God, this thing's got everything but floats in the....I mean all they need is Goofy, a big balloon with ropes on it following this guy around. NORMAN: You almost did. I mean, you had the Secret Service with a bomb-sniffing dog squad out there checking his car in the parking lot. The video tapes of that gone. The video tapes of the room where they are stored, gone. I mean, this whole thing is massively covered up, and I guess it is for national security reasons. QUINN: Well now, I understand that Foster had a meeting scheduled with Bill Clinton. I believe it was on a Wednesday. NORMAN: Right. QUINN: And, it was the Tuesday he was killed. NORMAN: Right. Exactly. The question is well, gee, was he going to drop something in the President's lap and blow the plausible deniability that he might have on this stuff. QUINN: Well, this Foster suicide thing is so sloppy. It leads me to believe that on Tuesday they thought he would take the money and shut up, and he didn't take it so they had to do something real quick. NORMAN: Well, that could be it or that even if he wanted to shut up maybe they were afraid he would crack under interrogation or something. You know, it is just somebody wanted him real dead, and there is a bunch of people who had ample reason for it. This was not suicide. It was not over depression. This was a political assassination carried out on U.S. soil by foreign government. The Israelis were involved in this. There was apparently a three person Masad contracted team that went into the apartment that Foster had gone to that afternoon where he was apparently lured by a female person from the White House staff who I think still works in the White House. QUINN: Now, who would that be? NORMAN: Well, I... QUINN: Because, he had sex with her? NORMAN: That's the impression, yeah. QUINN: I mean, there was semen on his shorts. There was brownish-blonde hair on his clothing and rug fibers all over him which may or may not have had to do with having sex on the floor. It might have been... NORMAN: No, I think that was because he was rolled up in a rug afterwards and taken over to Fort Marcy Park. Now, the question is were elements of our intelligence community involved in helping to dispose of the body and cover it up some way? QUINN: Who is the woman in the White House? NORMAN: I can't say. QUINN: Patsy Thomason? NORMAN: No. I don't want to say. I suspect... QUINN: Dee Dee. Well, she's not there anymore. NORMAN: That name is known. I mean, she has been identified on these tapes apparently, but.... QUINN: I think Dee Dee and Bill are doing it, but that's just me. Anyway, let's get back to the story here. Okay, so I understand at least you are claiming that there is a videotape of Foster's murder? NORMAN: Well, of the people entering and leaving this apartment a few blocks from the White House where it apparently occurred. QUINN: Has anybody located this apartment? Do you know where it is? NORMAN: I don't know exactly where it is myself. I am told it is actually within a few blocks of the White House. QUINN: Okay, so they lure him here, and they pop him, and there is a videotape of it or there is a videotape of the people going in and out. Then, they go to Fort Marcy Park, and they dump him. NORMAN: Right. QUINN: Okay, and we've got a witness now that says they saw the two guys that fit the same description that Patrick Knowlton, the other witness, to Foster's car. He describes the one guy that threatens him. One of those people is one of the two that supposedly was walking Foster, who looked drunk to this guy, into the park, but he says that they laid him out. NORMAN: Yeah. I don't know too much about all that stuff, but what I know is this that Paul Rodriguez is the Editor of Insight Magazine that came up with this Mr. X source. When Forbes decided not to run the story for reasons that were kind of mysterious to me at the time and while I was still there, they gave me permission to publish it elsewhere. And, as I approached Insight because they are kind of a gutsy magazine, David Rodriguez made a whole bunch of calls around Washington trying to corroborate this stuff, and I think he was making some headway. Then, he gets this visit in person from some military intelligence guy from the Pentagon who comes to him and says, "Paul, lay off this story. You don't know what you're dealing with here." QUINN: No. I think we do know what we are dealing with here. We're dealing with the biggest scandal since maybe... NORMAN: And, you got Israeli relations at stake here. You know, the intelligence community has a lot of joint ventures with the Israelis. They don't want to "queer" those things. I mean, we do business with those people a lot, and you know a lot of it is probably quite necessary but you know there is a scandal here that dwarfs the Jonathan Pollard case by orders of magnitude really. QUINN: I want to discuss a couple of things with you. First of all, now it would appear that a bunch of Republicans picking Kenneth Starr to put him in charge of this investigation of Vince Foster and the Whitewater problem in Washington, D.C. On the surface, it looked like they were going for the jugular, but see Mr. Starr has some background that leads back to the Inslaw case we discussed earlier in the show about the Promise software and stuff. He excused himself from that litigation. NORMAN: And, the reason was because he was the inside counsel at the William French Smith at the Justice Department in 1982 at the time that the Inslaw software was expropriated by the government really. QUINN: Okay. So he really is not in the position to be the pit bull to expose this. He is in a better position to get Clinton on whatever Republicans need to get him on and make sure that Republicans don't get burned here. NORMAN: I think that's it. Yeah. QUINN: Okay, now. Given that that's the case and given that the Washington inside the beltway crowd on both sides of the aisle are trying to make sure that the fix is in on this, how do you think or what leads you to believe that this is going to come out and through what channels? NORMAN: Well, again, it goes back to resources of mine. Basically, there are a few good guys in the intelligence community particularly this handful of people in the so-called Fifth Column who are so incensed about this bipartisan coverup, the government's inability and unwillingness to deal with the high level corruption here, they've just decided to take things into their own hands. They never had government authorization to go raid the foreign bank accounts, but.... QUINN: How many accounts are there? How many people in the government right now have Swiss bank accounts filled with money from BCCI, drug laundering, defense kickbacks, arms trades, I mean all of this nonsense? NORMAN: Not as many as two years ago. These guys have been out raiding these accounts. They've pulled back $2.5 billion, more than $2.5 billion with a "B" dollars from 300, 400, 500 of these accounts. There is probably 3,000 coded Swiss and other foreign bank accounts that they have been rifling through the computers on. QUINN: How can there be this many of them and it doesn't come out? NORMAN: It is because it is endemic corruption. The government is corrupt. Why should we give the President of South Korea $600 million? ...country more powerful, more worth corrupting, more venal and with weaker controls for policing this stuff. QUINN: Well, because we don't believe it can happen here. NORMAN: That's right. We're Americans. Well, this is greed and money. But, there is.... QUINN: Well, it's murder too. NORMAN: That's right, and there have been hundreds of these accounts already raided, and nobody, NOBODY has been able to stand up and say, "I was robbed." Why? Because, the money came from exactly what you said - kickbacks on drugs, kickbacks on arms, insider trading, and they never paid any taxes on this stuff. They've never disclosed it, and the minimum sentence for willful tax evasion is ten years, that's the minimum. So, what you have going on right now in Congress is basically there is an angel of death. Actually, there is two I'm told. There is one on the Democratic side and one on the Republican side. QUINN: Now, do they make their rounds together? NORMAN: No. It's separately. What I'm told is that the people in Congress with these Swiss bank accounts who have had these accounts if they haven't already left, if they haven't had the good sense to already get their butts out of there they have been delivered, hand delivered a brown paper envelope with transaction records of their Swiss bank accounts and within a day or so they get a visit from this angel of death who says it's time for you to go, time to do some career planning, you're out of here, we don't want you in the government when the stuff hits the fan here as it's gonna do in the spring apparently. The records are going to Starrt coming out. It's going to be obvious. These vigilantes are just going to take this situation into their own hands and release this stuff, I'm convinced. QUINN: These people are real patriots. They could end up dead doing this. NORMAN: Some of them may already have. I think...but they've planned this quite well. I think they've got it down now. They know that if anything happens to them that the stuff would just come out in a gush so it would be counterproductive for.... QUINN: Yeah, but I mean is it going to come out in the mainstream media. You've got the Mena story being spiked a year ago by Katherine Graham at the Washington Post, and I've uncov...you what I stumbled on a memo from Paul Keiser yesterday from the editor at the Washington Post who writes me in this memo a flat out blatant lie. He says that the authors of the Mena story that was supposed to run January 26, 1995 in the Washington Post Outlook Section had withdrawn the article before the Washington Post had decided to run it, and that's just a flat out lie. NORMAN: Well, it's technically probably true. But, what they've done, they've left those people dangling by a thread for like 6-8 months. I don't blame them for taking the story elsewhere as the.... QUINN: Yeah, but no, but Jim they didn't. The type galleys had been laid, and the artwork had been done. It was supposed...they didn't pull it until the Thursday before the Sunday it was supposed to run. NORMAN: Right. Well, technically the Post can say, "oh, we never quieted you..." NORMAN: That's what they told me at Forbes, too, about my story. Finally, I never got a good reason why my story didn't run at Forbes. Ultimately, they said, "oh we didn't trust your sources." But, actually what my immediate supervisor said, "we can't say this about Systematics," which was a big advertiser at Forbes, and we can't say this about the Israelis. QUINN: Yeah, right. NORMAN: That's why didn't run in Forbes. QUINN: Well, there's actually no proof that Systematics has deliberately delivered stolen software. I mean, they may not even know that the software was stolen, and it may be another version of it. NORMAN: Systematics is under heavy duty investigation though right now for money laundering because once you set up a system for laundering covert funds for the government who knows what else you can piggyback on top of that. The suspicion is that this was the quid pro quo here in return for laundering supposedly call it legitimate funds that the intelligence community can piggyback other stuff to. QUINN: Let's get back to the angel of death here and the resignations in Congress which have been pretty much attributed by guys like Rush Limbaugh to the fact that Democrats just don't like being in the minority anymore, and they don't have the guts or stamina to stick it out the way the Republicans did for 40 years. And, some of that may be true, but how many of these people who have said that they are pulling their hats out of the ring. And, now we have two Republicans. How many of these people have been visited by this so-called angel of death? All of them? NORMAN: Well, the figures I've heard is that I think there's like 25 or 26 so far since the last election who have decided they are not going to run again or had actually resigned and out of there like Norman Manetta from Los Angeles. Of those, I'm told about 21 or 22 so far can be directly attributed to Swiss bank account problems. There is probably another dozen or so that are going to go that way. Again, there is an argument that, "oh, we just can't stand the nasty politics in Washington anymore." Come on, give me a break. QUINN: Well, I like Patsy Schroeder. She wanted us to believe that now that the Democratic party is in such good shape she can leave it and it doesn't...did you see that? NORMAN: No.... QUINN: That was great. Oh yeah, now that.... NORMAN: Patsy Schroeder, somebody noted on the Internet that at the news conference where she was announcing she wasn't going to run, there had already been re-elect Schroeder bumper stickers printed up. I mean, she....take this guy Ron Coleman from Texas a Congressman down there. He made his announcement at his supposed re-election campaign kickoff party. QUINN: You're kidding? This is right out of a...this is a movie. NORMAN: That's right. Listen, these people have been confronted. They've been given 24 hours basically to clean out their desks. That's what it amounts to. QUINN: So, they're gonna try and get all these people out who have Swiss bank accounts before it hits the fan. Now, when do you suppose that this is going to happen. Can you give us a timetable? NORMAN: Well, that's happening in tears. I mean, we've already seen a bunch of departures. I think that the early spring is the timetable. You know, Wall Street is going to get hit with this stuff too. Now, every year in the spring soon after the first of the year after these guys collect their year-end bonuses you have abig exodus. But, I'm told Wall Street is going to get hit with this big time this year because those guys were in it too. You gotta remember, there was so much money sloshing around here... QUINN: Yeah, really. NORMAN: ..from arms deals you could not launder all of that money without the knowing, willing cooperation and participation of major banks, major brokerage houses, and... QUINN: Goldman Sachs possibly? NORMAN: Oh yeah. Look, Goldman... QUINN: I always found it strange that Robert Rubin showed up when he did. NORMAN: His Goldman, they were the chief investment bankers to Robert Maxwell in the U.K., helped Maxwell loot a half a billion dollars out of his pension funds, and it now costs a huge amount of money for a settlement there. QUINN: It sounds like somebody's calling you. NORMAN: They still have the bond for ADFA, the Arkansas Development... QUINN: Whoa, hold on a second. What's that? NORMAN: That's another one of these... QUINN: Well no, I know what it is. You're telling me that Goldman Sachs was holding the bonds for the Arkansas Development? NORMAN: No, they were the underwriter on a bunch of these $8 billion or so of bonds that ADFA marketed to who knows whom. QUINN: Oh man. You know, I have transactions on my desk at home, $80 million of money transfers to the Fuji Bank in the Cayman Islands from ADFA, the Arkansas Development Financial Authority who I believe never had more than $8 million to begin with. I mean, where did they get $80 million and what's it going to the Fuji Bank for? The interest rate? Come on, the Switzerland of the Caribbean. Jim, I gotta let you go. I gotta wrap this up here, but I want to thank you for joining us this morning. NORMAN: It's a pleasure. I'll keep you posted as more develops. There's going to be more coming down the pike here soon. QUINN: Well, I'll tell you what. I'm gonna call you later on today. I'll give you my home number. Let's stay in touch because if what you say is true and if there are truly some patriots in the intelligence community who are finally going to blow the whistle on this. By the way, all of these resignations and the angel of death and all of this I think is evidence that these people know that this is inevitable that this is going to come out. NORMAN: It's like AIDS. I think there are a bunch of people back before the last election who realized they, in fact, have slept with the wrong woman or person and that did not run again, but there has been denial, denial, denial by a bunch of these people. Finally, I think it's like the angel of death is finally coming around saying, "you gotta go. Bye. You're outta here." ********************************* **************************** If you are a talk show host and want to contact either one of these guys for an interview you can reach James Norman at MEDIA BYPASS MAGAZINE 1-800-4-BYPASS Jim Quinn can be contacted at WRRK , 7 Parkway Center, Suite 780, Pittsburgh, PA 15220, Fax Number 412-928-9290, Internet address is quinn@sgi.net homepage at http://www.warroom.com or Compuserve 72662,3507. This is the story of the decade...spread this far and wide, printout and FAX to your local talk show hosts. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Brenda C. Jinkins --------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Sussman Oakland University SBA WWW Administrator djsussma@jupiter.acs.oakland.edu http://www.sba.oakland.edu/staff/djsussma/djsussma.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu Dec 07, 1995 10:28 pm CST From: David J. Sussman EMS: INTERNET / MCI ID: 376-5414 MBX: djsussma@jupiter.acs.oakland.edu TO: * David Beiter / MCI ID: 635-1762 Subject: Jim Norman - The Still Before The Storm (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 4 DEC 1995 22:28:58 GMT From: Ken Cook Newgroups: alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater Subject: Jim Norman - The Still Before The Storm This is the entire text of the James Norman article for the December 1995 issue of Media Bypass magazine. THE STILL BEFORE THE STORM by James Norman By all appearances, things are business as usual in Washington. There is the traditional budget bickering this time of the year, the partisan sniping and the backstabbing among Republican presidential hopefuls angling for pole position next year. Meanwhile, President Clinton and his ambitious wife manage to hold a comfortable approval rating in the polls, enjoy favorable press and seemingly have managed to shrug off persistent "Whitewater" allegations that have dogged his presidency. But don't be lulled by the mainstream media, which has been hard at work pooh-poohing these corruption charges and doubts about the official "suicide" of former White House Deputy Counsel Vincent W. Foster. This is just the eerie still before a storm. A hurricane lurks just over the horizon. Thunderheads are gathering and looming darker. Distant lightning can be seen but not yet heard. Straws are starting to blow in the wind. This government may be on the threshold of upheaval unprecedented since the Civil War. That is the cryptic message coming from multiple well- connected sources close to the intelligence community, who say big things are quietly afoot that could fundamentally shuffle this country's political deck. And that may be just fine with Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.), who sources say is quietly maneuvering to use this impending turmoil not just to "re-engineer government" but to purge both political parties and effect what amounts to a bloodless coupe d'etat. Swept away will be not only a raft of big-name Democratic senators and congressmen, but also many prominent, oldline Republicans who have been feeding at the trough of corruption for years. It won't stop with politicians, either. Prominent Wall Streeters, bureaucrats, military officers and a slew of intelligence bigshots are also said to be about to take a fall. Well over 300 names are said to be involved in the scandal. "Apocalypse soon!" predicts P.P. Willie. P.P. Willie is actually a dog. But it is also the pen name for a legendary World War II military intelligence veteran, now living in St. Petersburg, Fla., who writes for a semi-weekly newsletter called WASHINGTON REPORT. It is a pithy, irreverent Capitol gossip sheet with a penchant for pink paper. But it is read with considerable interest by its 5,000 subscribers - mostly in Washington and overseas - because Willie is known to be well-connected within the intelligent community. In the past he has been uncannily accurate about goings-on in the spook world. And times there now are very troubled. Willie's latest: "Remember reading about TEA POT DOME? How about WATERGATE? Then came IRAN-CONTRA. Not bad. All the past WASHINGTON political SCANDALS are ITTY BITTY compared to one that should surface next year, about early spring. "You don't suppose a few GOOD GUYS in the CIA, FBI, IRS, and NSA (they are not many, but they exist) are fed up with tucking their tails and running in the face of WHITE HOUSE pressure? What if they went public with TRUE DOCUMENTED stories of ESPIONAGE, MURDER, TAX EVASION, DRUG DEALING, MILLIONS OF DOLLARS STASHED IN OFFSHORE BANK ACCOUNTS AND OTHER BIG TIME HANKY PANKY at the very TIP TOP of the WASHINGTON manure pile? The MAJOR MEDIA would not want to embarrass the LIBERAL DARLINGS. But WHAT IF A LONDON newspaper and PINK newsletter broke the story? Talk RADIO would then spread the word across the nation...The odds are this scandal will break. We hear it's a DONE DEAL." Whispers of such a spilling of the beans are being heard from multiple, separate intelligence sources. Specifically, as reported in the August and October editions of MEDIA BYPASS, a small, vigilante team of CIA computer hackers dubbed the Fifth Column has managed to penetrate Swiss and other foreign banks to quietly withdraw what is now an astounding $2. 5 billion in illicit money from coded accounts they have identified as belonging to government figures. Starting in 1991, this five-man Fifth Column team has been using its own Cray supercomputer to break into foreign bank computers, download vast libraries of data and trace this money to a wide range of illegal activities, from kickbacks on drug and arms deals to insider trading profits, software piracy and the sale of state secrets. Oh yes, don't forget tax evasion.j The money has been moved to a U.S. Treasury holding account at several Federal Reserve Banks, escrowed for use by the CIA if and only if the CIA gets rid of its own bad apples. How could the government hide that much money, denying under Freedom of Information Act requests that it even exists? Just ask the National Reconnaissance Office, the government's spy satellite agency, which recently fessed up to having $1.7 billion stashed in secret accounts. More important then the money, however, are the NAMES. Who had these accounts? Are they still in office? Who has the list and the proof? Are they using this information to extort political blackmail? Will the bad guys be able to buy their way out of exposure? One thing is certain: Whoever controls this phantom roster of corrupt politicians and money men has this government's private parts in a tightening vise. One man who may know is Charles S. Hayes, an irascible Kentucky computer salvage dealer and recently-retired CIA contractor believed to be part of, or closely involved with, this Fifth Column. Hayes, corroborating P.P. Willie's report, does declare that all the names will come out. Eventually. "When we get good and ready," Hayes says. The Powers That Be can do little to stop him. Any move against the three remaining Fifth Column compatriots (one has died and another is disabled) would be certain to unleash the information in a flood. At least one big name has already been revealed: Vince Foster. Multiple sources say one of Foster's several Swiss accounts was raided just before his death of $2.73 million in proceeds from the sale of sensitive codes and other secrets to Israel's Mossad. Which may explain why the government is so anxious to portray Foster's death as a simple suicide. In reality, it could be the loose thread that unravels a massive tapestry of corruption. That suicide cover story is rapidly fraying, despite intense efforts by the White House and Washington establishment to hold it together. For instance, credible independent handwriting analysts concluded in late October that Foster's supposed suicide note is a forgery. Indeed, there are a number of recent tell-tale events that suggest that something very big is at hand. Among them: - CIA briefings. Beginning in late October, high-level CIA officials began sensitive one-on-one briefings with key members of Congress and those with intelligence committee assignments. No staff members are allowed. All parties are sworn to secrecy. Less than a dozen lawmakers are involved. The subject, according to two sources: Espionage activities of Vincent Foster and his alleged partner - First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton - on behalf of Israel's Mossad and perhaps other foreign governments. The purpose of these briefings appears to be to prep key leaders for cataclysmic political events ahead, including the likely indictment and possible flight to a foreign country of the First Lady and what would surely be the inevitable removal of Bill Clinton from office. - Resignations. There has been an unusually large number of veteran congressmen and senators announcing their resignations, retirements or switching parties. Among them, Sen. Sam Nunn (D-Ga.), former chairman and now ranking minority member of the powerful Armed Services Committee. Another is Rep. Norman Minetta (D-Calif.), former chairman of the pork- laden House Transportation Committee. The official explanation: It's no fun now that the Republicans control Congress. But sources claim the real reason is that some of these departees have been quietly confronted with evidence that they took bribes or payoffs through Swiss or other offshore bank accounts. Rumor has it that about 30 current members of the House and Senate ahve been identified as having such foreign slush-fund accounts and that Gingrich is trying to weed them out before the names become public. [Since this article was written, three more senators have announced their retirements. Schroeder of Colorado; Hatfield of Oregon; and Simpson of Wyoming. This is now the most retirements in Congress since 1896. Jim Norman was on several radio talk shows recently stating that Schroeder and Hatfield have been presented with evidence of these secret Swiss accounts. The Simpson retirement was announced after these radio appearances- krc] - Curious denials. Multiple good sources have confirmed a report by veteran Washington correspondent Sarah McClendon that over the Labor Day weekend, Gingrich attended a "party" at the home of Vice President Al Gore that included Sen. Bill Bradley, Attorney General Janet Reno and some other prominent Democrats, after which Gore and Clinton had a shouting match. But everyone said to be involved in the meeting claims it never took place. Is it because Gingrich was there to deliver the bad news: a mountain of hard evidence of high-level corruption? Gingrich declines to be interviewed by MEDIA BYPASS. This Fifth Column team apparently began its work in the late 1980s. Their primary assignment was to break into foreign intelligence agency databases by a variety of physical and electronic means. But the main means of entry was via secret "back doors" programmed into the modified "PROMIS" tracking software which our government, under the direction of CIA spymaster William Casey, managed to market all over the globe, even to our enemies. This initial phase of the computer spy effort succeeded in downloading data from more than 50 foreign intelligence services, including the KGB, the Mossad and most of Europe's spy agencies, according to various CIA- related sources. Contrary to boastful claims by the FBI, this is apparently how Russian mole Aldrich Ames was identified as a double agent more than two years before his dramatic arrest in February 1994. Is is also how the CIA found out Foster was working for the Mossad, after learning that someone in our government was delivering highly sensitive computer codes to the Israelis; Foster had been a long-time handler of sensitive computer spy deals and covert money-laundering for the NSA (MEDIA BYPASS, Aug. 1995). Found along with Foster's name in the Mossad data base was that of Hillary Clinton, whose name also cropped up as an operative for at least two other European intelligence services, as yet unidentified. At the time of his death, MEDIA BYPASS has previously reported, Foster was under close counter-espionage surveillance involving members of the CIA, FBI, Secret Service as well as an IRS team. Two good sources say they have heard that Saudi Arabia also had agents surveilling Foster. He knew he was being investigated and was apparently under pressure to cop a plea to prevent the probe from bringing down others in the White House. The FBI apparently also knew that Foster's life was in danger: According to two reliable intelligence sources, on the day of his death, FBI agents used a pair of bomb-sniffing dogs to inspect Foster's Honda in the White House parking lot - and probably planted a transponder on the car so they could track the movements. White House videotapes of the parking lot, which would have shown that inspection, have allegedly disappeared, according to this intelligence source. But sources say the surveillance teams have still photos and videotapes of Foster's activities on the afternoon he died, July 20, 1993, showing him entering an apartment. It is here that Foster was apparently killed, after a sexual encounter with a brownish-blond woman photographed leaving the apartment afterwards. Also photographed, these sources say, was the hit squad, apparently "assets" contracted by the Mossad but not including any agents of the Mossad itself. Foster's body was apparently rolled up in a rug and deposited at Fort Marcy Park - which is still closed to visitors as teh FBI supposedly searches for the bullet that killed him. Doggedly, the White House and offical Washington, aided by a blinded mainstream press, continue to claim it was just a suicide, despite the seriously flawed and widely discredited report to that effect by original Whitewater Special Counsel Robert Fiske, and a cursory Senate inquiry. Sources say it is the continuing coverup, now more than two years after Foster's death, and the brazen nature of Foster's assassination, that has soured CIA professionals and has prompted them to consider going public with what they know. Adding to their frustration was the resignation of reform-minded CIA director James Woollsey last year and his replacement by John Deutch. Deutch's job appears to be to keep a lid on things and to protect the Clintons and the massive, ongoing illegal drug and arms trade that provides the agency with billions of dollars in revenue completely out of view of Congress and government watchdogs. Deutch's recent attempt to use the Aldrich Ames case as a club to attack the CIA and its past directors has brought the agency's simmering revolt to a boil. "Deutch had better watch his altitude and attitude," said one veteran CIA man. "He'd better get off his soapbox before he gets indicted himself." Rumors of CIA involvement in drug trafficking go back to before the Vietnam war, with heroin trade from Laos' Golden Triangle. But in the late '70s or early '80s, the agency virtually took over and nationalized the wholesale importation of cocaine into this country through obscure airfields like the one at Mena, Ark., on the grounds that it was the only way to control the drug trade. In other words: "If you can't lick them, join them." The operation was soon generating vastly more money than ever imagined - which has come back to line the pockets of top government officials from the Reagan, Bush and Clinton administrations. The money- laundering operations have likewise drawn in major banks and brokerage houses. By some accounts, the revenues still run upwards of $7 billion a year. Details of government involvement in this society-wrecking drug trade are now emerging from various sources. Bits and pieces emerged during the Iran-Contra and Iraqgate hearings of the 1980s, which produced a million pages of documents but only a handful of indictments, and fewer convictions. Perhaps the biggest fish caught was Reagan Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger, charged with lying to Congress. He was pardoned by President George Bush just as Bush was leaving office in 1992. Curiously, Weinberger's right-hand-man through most of that period was would-be presidential contender Gen. Colin Powell, who Weinberger had brought up to be a top military advisor, out of Casey's intelligence empire where he is said to have served with the NSA and to have been intimately familiar with the drug and arms flow. There is also a growing court record of sworn testimony in the wrongful prosecution case of former CIA contract pilot Terry Reed. Reed claims in his book, "Compromised: Clinton, Bush and the CIA," that Bill Clinton, while governor of Arkansas, was well aware of the drug trafficking there but played along with the game to earn himself the status of an "approved" candidate for the presidency. With that would come plenty of financing. Another source now openly discussing the massive drug business is retired Navy Lt. Commander Alexander Martin. Martin was, in effect, the chief accountant for the Reagan/Bush drug operations run by Marine Lt. Col. Oliver North, through an obscure arm of the White House National Security Council called the Natinal Programs Office. In a radio interview with talk show host Tom Valentine last July, Martin spoke not only of drugs and money, but death. "Out of roughly 5,000 of us who were originally involved in Iran-Contra, approximately 400, since 1986, have committed suicide, died accidently or died of natural causes. In over half those deaths, official death certificates were never issued. In 187 circumstances, the bodies were cremated before the families were notified. " Martin then said he was lying low. Not low enough. In late October, Martin was arrested and jailed without bond in Broward County, Fla., for supposed violation of his probation on a 1990 bad-check charge. Such small-time charges are a common device used to squelch and discredit former players in this government-run drug and arms racket. Corruption. Most Americans like to think their government is somehow immune to the kinds of bribery and abuse of public power rampant in "Third World" countries. The emerging reality is that the exact opposite is true. The more wealth and power at stake, the greater the incentive to subvert and corrupt. Sources say the dark truths predicted to be unveiled by P.P. Willie will be utterly damning. END OF JAMES NORMAN ARTICLE FOR DEC 1995 MEDIA BYPASS Posted to Internet by Ken Cook Date: Fri Jan 12, 1996 10:39 pm CST From: snet l EMS: INTERNET / MCI ID: 376-5414 MBX: snet-l@world.std.com TO: * David Beiter / MCI ID: 635-1762 Subject: Hackers Versus Politicians, Part II Hackers Versus Politicians, Part II by J. Orlin Grabbe Politicians are those annoying people who--drink in hand--can stare at a uuencoded file for hours, fall into a sexual reverie involving ASCII entities, and then weave their way to the nearest TV camera to pontificate about pornography on the Internet. But, you ask, if they are so dumb, why are they so rich? Sometimes the latter is a mystery, reminiscent of the miracle of the loaves and the fishes. Take the case of a man who can hardly pay his bills, but who gets elected to national political office and goes off to Washington for a few years. Then--lo and behold!--on his simple politician's salary, he suddenly manages to maintain two fine homes, one inside the beltway in Chevy Chase and another in his home town community of Rat's Ass, to purchase new cars for his wife and himself, to accumulate lakefront property in a neighboring county, and to stash away a nice sum of cash in a foreign bank account. If the "simple politician's salary" bit sounds improbable, it probably is. Let's face it: many politicians are on the take. They may have hidden sources of income involving illegal payoffs from corporations, lobbying groups, or individuals. Are you a student? Then you will be proud to know that educational commissions and associations are also a hot new conduit for political bribes. This article suggests a few basic procedures for finding out whether that special politician you have in mind is getting more on the side than ASCII sex. Honest politicians, of course, will have nothing to fear from any of the following. Is what I am about to do legal? you ask. Of course it is. To reassure yourself, pull out your world-wide web browser and take a peak at one of the many data service companies, say Insights, Inc. (located at ). They promise, using only an individual or business name and/or address, to provide sufficient information for: *Preparing Due Diligence Reports *Locating People or Businesses *Exposing and Controlling Fraud *Uncovering & Verifying Background Information *Identifying and Verifying Assets How do they get away with this? Simple. They legally search public records. Much of this public-record information is computerized, although some of it is not. In any event, I do not advocate illegal or questionable access methods, or the breaking of any laws. Checking up on the (possibly criminal) politician of your choice doesn't have to be a crime. Still not convinced? Hop over to Infonet , which for a fee will mine public records for nuggets like: *Felony and Misdemeanor Criminal Filings--"Search any court in the nation for a seven year history of criminal filings and possible convictions." (Many politicians wait until they reach office to work on this part of their resume, but some are early starters.) *Driving Histories--"Search a three to seven year history of an individuals driving performance, including tickets and accidents." (So you don't really care if your politician speeds a little now and then. But, on the other hand, did that official who helped him get out of a DWI expect a quid pro quo?) *Upper and Lower Court Civil Filings--"Obtain a civil litigation history of any individual in any court in the United States." (Is there some hidden reason this guy is getting sued all the time?) *Social Security Number Tracking--"Access all three credit bureaus to verify the user of a social security number and the addresses being used." (Having your politician's social security number is the next best thing to having his Swiss bank account number.) *Professional Licensing--"Verify the existence and status of an entity's license in a specific practice area, such as private investigation, medicine, real estate and more." (Was your politician really a world-renowned physicist before returning home to run for mayor of Rat's Ass?) *Consumer and Business Credit Reports--"Review account balances, credit terms and payment histories for an individual or business." ("So, before he went to Washington, he couldn't pay his bills . . .") Well, if they can do it, so can you. So where do you start? Well, first see what the politician him/herself has to say about the money flows Federal law (5 USC app. 6, section 101 et seq.) requires members of Congress to file *Financial Disclosure Statements* yearly. The Financial Disclosure form has nine parts: Schedule I: Earned Income Schedule II: Payments in Lieu of Honoraria Made to Charity Schedule III: Assets and "Unearned Income" Schedule IV: Transactions. Schedule V: Liabilities Schedule VI: Gifts Schedule VII: Fact-Finding, Substantial Participation, and Other Travel Schedule VIII: Positions Schedule IX: Agreements Want to see Newt Gingrich's personal finances for the year 1993? Direct your web browser to . Many state, county, and city elections have similar requirements, either on a personal or a campaign basis. Want to see a copy of the *Candidate Campaign Statement-Long Form-Form 490* for Joel Ventresca, candidate for Mayor of San Francisco? Visit Campaign Net at . These statements represent what a politician says he or she has or gets. But the really interesting items--like those kickbacks from the Cali cartel--not surprisingly go unreported. To get the good stuff, you will need your full hacker armor. The first thing to get is your politician's *social security number (SSN)*. It's not difficult Your politician loves to be photographed doing his/her civic duty of voting. Which means he or she fills out a *voter's registration card* (public information) which will contain said politician's name, address, date of birth, party affiliation, and--usually--social security number. Voter files may be obtained at your politician's local county court house, as well as on many on-line data bases. A person's SSN is the common key that links together many commercial and government data bases. Can't find the SSN number on the voter's registration card? Then try *DMV* records. The insurance lobby has made sure that driver's records are easy to get, along with the details of any accidents, and critical driver information such as height, color of eyes, address--and social security number, if the latter was required information on the form. (California won't give out addresses, if a request has been filed not to do so--the "movie star" exemption.) In about 20 states the individual's social security number is the driver's license number. Still searching? Then go with the triple whammy of the major credit bureaus--TRW, TransUnion, and CBI/Equifax. The Fair Credit Reporting Act essentially implies you must be contemplating a business relationship--such as selling a car, renting an apartment, giving a loan, or attempting to collect on a judgment--with a party to request his credit report. But the *header* information in the file--such as social security number, date of birth, address, and spouse's name--is legally available to anyone, and your inquiry (unlike an actual credit report) will leave no footprints. The addresses and phone numbers are: TRW 660 N. Central Expressway, Exit 28 Allen, TX 75002 Automated phone: 800-392-1122 Phone: 800-422-4879 CBI/Equifax 5505 Peachtree Dunwoody, #600 Atlanta, GA 30374-0241. Automated phone: 800-685-1111 Phone: 800-685-5000 Trans Union P.O.Box 7000 North Olmsted OH 44070-7000 Automated phone: 800-851-2674 Phone: (714) 738-3800, ext. 6450 Are you a hacker-journalist? Then take a peak at the National Institute for Computer-Assisted Reporting (NICAR; located at ). Their bylaws prohibit them from selling data to nonjournalists (not that you want to *buy* data anyway--we're just exploring *possibilities*). But data is "sold at or below costs to journalism organizations or individuals for legitimate journalism uses only." (Doing your civic duty to keep tabs on your politician is, naturally, a legitimate journalistic use of the data.) Their data bases include these publicly-available information sets, among others: Organization: Government Services Agency Databases: Federal Procurement Contracts for 1992-1994. Organization: Federal Election Commission Databases: Campaign Contributions for the 1991-1994 election cycle. Organization: Federal Reserve Board Databases: home mortgage loans covered by Home Mortgage Disclosure Act (for 1992-1994) Organization: Federal Aviation Administration Databases: Service Difficulty Reports, Airman Directory, Aircraft Registry Organization: Federal Bureau of Investigation Databases: Uniform Crime Reports Organization: Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Databases: Gun Dealer Licenses The existence of such data immediately brings to mind a barrage of possibly relevant questions: Is there an incestuous relationship between the donors to your politician's campaign and subsequent federal government contracts? (It always starts somewhere . . .) To find out, compare federal procurement data with campaign contributions. Campaign contribution data from the Federal Election Commission are supposed to include all contributions by individuals and political action groups (PACs) to a politician's federal election campaign. The Government Services Agency, meanwhile, keeps Individual Contract Action Reports (ICARs), which has information about the federal agency granting a government contract, the identity of the contractor, and the contract dollar amount. Has your politician recently purchased a new home? What is its value? What was the down payment? Is he or she living suspiciously beyond his or her means? What is your politician's race or gender (DNA sequence?)? To start to answer these questions, look at home mortgage data. The Federal Reserve Board started keeping data like this in order to check on "fair" lending practices. So the Fed began tracking home and home-improvement loans, as well as bank-purchased loans. (And just to help the enterprising hacker, when your politician is buying, or possibly refinancing, a house, most banks will now ask for his Social Security Number on the Deed of Trust, especially as the Federal National Mortgage Association now requires it.) Does your politician own an aircraft? What's its value? Did he purchase it with cash? Check the FAA's aircraft records. Does your politician own a gun even while advocating gun control? If he bought the gun from a dealer, ATF records can help out here. And so on. Now let's get to the nitty-gritty: *city, county, and state records*. The *City Clerk* in your politician's home town will have a list of business licenses (name, address, date) and building permits (name, address, cost of construction). The *County Clerk* or *County Recorder* should have liens on file (lien holder, payment agreements), a Probate Index (estate settlements), records of lawsuits and judgments, powers of attorney with respect to real estate, records of mortgages on personal property, and bankruptcy papers. Here you can find out not only the value of your politician's property, but also the names, addresses, and property values of everyone who lives on his street. *City and County Courts* will also maintain a Civil Index (civil actions, plaintiffs and defendants, as well as civil files: description of any disputed property or valuables), a Criminal Index (criminal cases in Superior Court, as well as criminal files), and voter's registration files. The *county tax collector* will have a description of any property owned, as well as taxes paid on real estate and personal property. The *county assessor* may also have maps and photos, or even blueprints showing the location of yoiur politician's hot tub. The *Secretary of State* will have corporation files and possibly annual reports of your politician's company. Okay, let's go over it again, taking it slow. With your politician's social security number in hand, you can get header information from the major credit bureaus. This will give you a seven to ten year history of addresses, as well any spousal name or names. The latter is very important, since your average politician's instinct will be to keep questionable sums of money and suspect personal assets in the name of his or her spouse, sibling, business associate, or girlfriend. Next you go to the state Department of Motor Vehicles, to find out your politician's tastes in cars, trucks, motorcyles, boats, trailers, and recreational vehicles. Of course if your politician leases any of the above, he or she will not show up as the vehicle owner. So the next thing to do is to run the license plate number of that Caddy parked out front, since this will give you the name of both lessee and lessor. Next you talk to someone who does business with your politician, and who thus has a permissible reason under the Fair Credit Reporting Act to run a credit check. This will give you a listing of all your politician's credit accounts, current balances, payment history, and payment terms. Any bankruptcies in the last ten years, or liens or judgments in the last seven years, will be listed. Did your politician suddenly receive a huge campaign contribution from some source, soon after your politician found himself stuck with a quarter million dollar judgment against him? If so, he won't be the first person who has sold out his country to pay off a personal financial debt. What property does your politician own? The offices of County Recorder and County Tax Assessor will give you the land value, improvement value, and total assesssed values for any property. They will frequently have also the amounts received for any sales, the sale dates, as well as information on the mortgage-holder or other lender. Did your politician get a large loan from Washoe International State Bank just about the time Washoe International State Bank was having trouble with state banking regulators, who are overseen by a legislative committee on which your politician sits? Does your politician own a business of any consequential size? Then run a business credit check. Who are (were) your politician's business associates? Who are the company officers and principals? Or--if as is commonly the case--your politician is a lawyer, who are the law partners? Look also for bankruptcies, tax liens, public records filings, judgments, and UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) financing statements. These documents may turn out to be filled with all sorts of unexpected names, dates, and activities. On what honorary commissions does your politician serve? Do the commission's audited financial statements show any payments for services not rendered? This was apparently what New York Attorney General Dennis Vacco was wondering, when he noted, on January 9, 1996, in a letter to the National Center on Education and the Economy: "Statement 11 on your 1990 Federal 990 and Note 5 on your 1990 audited financial statements indicate that the Center had retained the services of Hillary Rodham Clinton, a member of the Rose Law firm, to direct your Workforce Skills Program while she also served as a member of the Center's Board of Trustees. Statement 11 of the 1990 filing indicates that Mrs. Clinton received $23,000 for unspecified services. The 1990 filing also refers to a second contract, which was reported to be in the amount of $150,000 covering the period February 1, 1991 through January 31, 1992, and a similar statement appears on Statement 11 attached to the 1991 Federal 990." Moreover, did either Hillary Clinton or the Rose Law firm pay taxes on the sums received? (A little birdie tells me neither one did.) The office of the Secretary of State in any of the 50 states can be a source of UCC searches. UCC Indices will show whether your politician is listed as either a debtor or secured party. (Okay. So your politician is up to his neck in debt to Jackson Stephens. That doesn't mean he listens to a word of political advice Stephens gives him. No way.) Superior Courts, Federal Bankruptcy Courts, Small Claims Courts, and city, county, and state tax authorities keep records of tax liens, court judgments, and bankruptcy filings These reveal not only outstanding financial obligations, but also personal and company affiliations, partners, subsidiaries, and dependents. (Is there a Don Lasater or Don Tyson in your politician's background?) Does your politician really have those degrees he claims? Call the college registrar. Despite what you think, many politicians don't believe in their own "self-made man" rhetoric, and will enhance their resumes with unearned degrees. This in itself may only be a venal sin, but someone who records falsehoods in this area will likely also lie in others. Has your politician been in the news? Check your library's newspaper file, along with reader's guides, and other news indexes. On the Internet, you can quickly search for your politician's name among the 8 billion words on 16 million WWW pages, using the new Alta Vista search utility created by Digital Equipment Corporation. You can also do a name or keyword search through all 13,000 Usenet groups. Alta Vista is located at . Be sure to read Lee Lapin's book The Whole Spy Catalog (Intelligence Incorporated, 2228 S. El Camino Real, San Mateo, CA 94403; ISBN 1-880231-10-7) for literally dozens of names, addresses, and phone numbers of data information providers, along with an evaluation of their services. You don't need to patronize these services in order to steal ideas from them. Basically none of these providers specializes in politicians, so after a little self-education and set-up, you may be in a position to start your own business in political investigations. Bill yourself as a 21st Century Sherlock Holmes. (*Somebody* has to stop the nefarious influence of DigiCrime, Inc., found at .) Oh. About those foreign bank accounts. Well, I'll leave that to your imagination. But a little birdie told me if you call a military base computer, find an out-dial number, call another military base, and so on, going through a *minimum* of three military bases, any trace back will stop at the third military base. Whatever you do, don't do anything illegal. Date: Tue Jan 16, 1996 3:42 pm CST From: bigred EMS: INTERNET / MCI ID: 376-5414 MBX: bigred@duracef.shout.net TO: * David Beiter / MCI ID: 635-1762 Subject: Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 7 Num. 02 The following is brought to you thanks, in part, to the kind assistance of CyberNews and the fine folks at Cornell University. Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 7 Num. 02 ====================================== ("Quid coniuratio est?") ----------------------------------------------------------------- RECAP OF AND UPDATE ON THE NORMAN THESIS ======================================== For those who are tuning in late, here is "our story thus far": Back around March 4th, 1995, Mr. Sherman Skolnick of the Citizens' Committee to Clean Up the Courts came out with a story about a company called Systematics and alleged high-tech spying being done on foreign banks. (This was covered in CN 4.22 and, so far as I can tell, Skolnick's phone message, Hotline News at 312- 731-1100, was first to break the story.) Here is how Skolnick's story appeared in Conspiracy Nation: A telephone company in Arkansas is called ALLTEL. They have a subsidiary called Systematics which is a proprietary espionage operation of the National Security Agency [NSA]. Developed was a highly refined version of the Inslaw software called PROMIS. Originally designed to keep track of the caseloads of federal prosecutors, it was adapted to be used by spy agencies to track people worldwide, by satellite. The software has a "trapdoor" built into it. So, the NSA arranged to sell it or give it to supposedly friendly or other spy agencies: France, Sweden, Israel, and others. The "trapdoor" was a sort of "Trojan Horse", enabling U.S. espionage to spy on other spy shops. Systematics [allegedly] adapted it to be used through low- orbit satellites, to spy on the computers of central banks... Perhaps a better word than "trapdoor" would be "backdoor". The software sold or given to the unsuspecting banks is said to have had a hidden "door" through which prying eyes could enter unannounced. This is worth emphasizing, because some have said it would be impossible for a hacker or group of hackers to get into, for example, a Swiss bank. What these critics are neglecting to factor in is this "backdoor" through which electronic burglars possessing the "key" could easily enter. This last has not, to my knowledge, been refuted. The late White House aide Vince Foster is said to have had about $2.73 million stashed away in a Swiss bank account. CIA hackers, perhaps taking advantage of a "backdoor" in the bank's software, are said to have stumbled across not only Foster's hidden account but also hidden accounts belonging to members of Congress and other high government officials. This, it seems, is where these "public servants" were hiding bribe money they had illegally received. But apparently it was feared that breaking such a huge scandal publicly would cause Grandpa and Grandma USA to fall out of their rocking chairs. Yet something had to be done. These congresspersons and others could not be allowed to get away with their crookedness. While the CIA hackers, known as the "Fifth Column", are said to have cleaned out the accounts of the offenders, still it was obvious that some punishment was in order. Then too, you can't just leave these bribe-takers in office -- what's to stop them from accepting more bribes? So it is reported by several independent sources that these bribe-takers are being told to leave their jobs, or else have their alleged rotteness revealed. As former *Forbes* senior editor James R. Norman put it in the December 1995 issue of Media Bypass magazine (1-800-4-Bypass): There has been an unusually large number of veteran congressmen and senators announcing their resignations, retirements or switching parties... The official explanation: It's no fun now that the Republicans control Congress. But sources claim the real reason is that some of these departees have been quietly confronted with evidence that they took bribes or payoffs through Swiss or other offshore bank accounts. Rumor has it that about 30 current members of the House and Senate have been identified as having such foreign slush-fund accounts... Richard L. Franklin, writing in his monthly newsletter, "Franklin's Focus" (Focus Press, 1820 Palisades Drive, Appleton, WI 54915), confirms the charges. He reports that he has checked with several of his sources and that, "as they say in the trade, the story now has legs." According to Franklin, a so-called "Angel of Death" is visiting the various congressional representatives and informing them that they have just 24 hours to announce their retirement. It is beyond dispute that a record number of Senators and Representatives are suddenly announcing their respective retirements from public office. What is more, the Norman article which appeared in the December 1995 Media Bypass is on record as predicting many of these retirements *before* they actually occurred. If Jim Norman's name was Jean Dixon or Irene Hughes, he would be everywhere on the talk shows by now, hailed for his amazing "psychic" abilities. Yet we hear nary a word of this remarkable story in our "free" press. To me, the very fact that this story is not being allowed into the public dialogue -- that, in itself, says something. Aren't the networks at least hungry for ratings? Why won't they draw in viewers with these intriguing and widely-believed allegations? Why too aren't members of Congress furiously demanding the opportunity to defend their impugned "honor"? The silence is deafening. Reporting on the phenomena of the disappearing Congress critters, the Washington Times, National Weekly Edition (Jan. 8-14, 1996) declares that "Congress is going through a shakeout." There have been, says the Times, 49 announced retirements or resignations since the November 1994 elections. And, it adds, a dozen of them have bowed out just recently, since Thanksgiving. Well, Times, here are two more names to add to your "trickle that has grown into a stream" of retirements: Associated Press reports ("Clinger to Retire", Jan. 15, 1996) that Rep. William Clinger "said Monday he will leave Congress after serving 18 years." The AP story adds, as if it is an afterthought, that Rep. Pat Williams, Montana Democrat, announced retirement plans on Saturday, Jan. 13th. Clinger says, "It's probably time for me to move on." Says Williams, "he's homesick." The AP article also notes that the high number of congressional retirements is the "most in a century." So that's the story thus far. Now, thanks to an east coast source whom I will call "Mr. Mercedes", I have received an audio tape of Jim Norman's recent appearance on New York radio station WBAI, marked on the cassette as having been January 10, 1996. Says Mr. Norman: "This country is in a *major* political crisis." According to the ex-*Forbes* senior editor, it is "unfolding right before our eyes." "For many years," he says, "[Vince Foster] had been a behind-the- scenes go-between between the NSA, the National Security Agency, and a company in Arkansas called Systematics -- a bank and data processing company now owned or controlled by a telephone conglomerate called ALLTEL... He may have had access to very high-level code, encryption [and] other kind of computer intelligence systems." According to Norman, "More important than that: when [Foster] arrived in the White House he -- according to sworn testimony by his executive assistant, Deborah Gorham(sp?) -- somehow or other, he came to have possession of at least two, inch-thick ring binders from the NSA, from the White House offices, which my sources tell me would have been *extremely* sensitive code materials -- probably the codes, and more important than that, the protocols, by which the President authenticates himself when he calls up the Pentagon and says, 'Let's go nuke somebody.'" "Plus the fact," adds the controversial but respected journalist, "that we have documented evidence of Foster making periodic, one- day trips to Geneva. Over every 6 or 8 months he had been making a one-day trip to Geneva. And multiple sources have confirmed that he had at least one, if not several, Swiss bank accounts." Mr. Norman charges that Vince Foster, *and* *Hillary* *Clinton*, were both under surveillance for espionage at the time of Foster's so-called "suicide". Norman wonders, "Where would Foster have gotten access to these very sensitive documents [e.g. the ring binders with the authentication codes] within the White House?" This last rings true when it is recalled that Foster and Mrs. Clinton had been widely reported as being lovers. According to Mr. Norman, *significant* national security issues are lurking beneath the surface of the otherwise dropsical Whitewater hearings. "Vince Foster, as problematic as his death is, it's small potatoes compared to what we discovered... In fact, former intelligence people who have been involved in computer surveillance of foreign accounts have found *hundreds* of Swiss, [Grand] Cayman [and] other off-shore bank accounts, coded bank accounts, maintained on behalf of high-level U.S. political figures. Both parties. *Many* members of Congress. Elected officials. Appointed officials. Military officers. Intelligence community big-shots. Wall-streeters. Bankers." "There's a massive scandal here, about to blow up. And, in fact, we're already starting to see it." [...to be continued...] ----------------------------------------------------------------- I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation." ----------------------------------------------------------------- If you would like "Conspiracy Nation" sent to your e-mail address, send a message in the form "subscribe cn-l My Name" to listproc@cornell.edu (Note: that is "CN-L" *not* "CN-1") ----------------------------------------------------------------- For information on how to receive the new Conspiracy Nation Newsletter, send an e-mail message to bigred@shout.net ----------------------------------------------------------------- Want to know more about Whitewater, Oklahoma City bombing, etc? (1) telnet prairienet.org (2) logon as "visitor" (3) go citcom ----------------------------------------------------------------- See also: http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- See also: ftp.shout.net pub/users/bigred ----------------------------------------------------------------- Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt. Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et pauperem. -- Liber Proverbiorum XXXI: 8-9 Date: Tue Jan 16, 1996 10:32 pm CST From: bigred EMS: INTERNET / MCI ID: 376-5414 MBX: bigred@duracef.shout.net TO: * David Beiter / MCI ID: 635-1762 Subject: Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 7 Num. 03 The following is brought to you thanks, in part, to the kind assistance of CyberNews and the fine folks at Cornell University. Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 7 Num. 03 ====================================== ("Quid coniuratio est?") ----------------------------------------------------------------- RECAP OF AND UPDATE ON THE NORMAN THESIS ======================================== Thanks to an east coast source whom I will call "Mr. Mercedes", I have received an audio tape of Jim Norman's recent appearance on New York radio station WBAI, marked on the cassette as having been January 10, 1996. [...continued from CN 7.02...] Here are further excerpts from the program: JAMES NORMAN: [Hillary] had actually been an attorney of record for Systematics which at the time was owned by the Arkansas billionaire Jackson Stephens, who tried to take over a Washington bank holding company on behalf of the BCCI [Bank of Credit and Commerce International] crowd and install Systematics as the data processing manager of that entire operation. Which is extremely curious, because BCCI itself was essentially a huge money- laundering, arms-finance and drug-finance/drug-money laundering operation. In the process of going through all this, I actually came across what turned out to be a Swiss bank account number: it was a 10- digit, encrypted series of letters... When I turned it over to some of the intelligence sources who I'd been using on this story, they ran it through their system. And, actually a couple of months later, when I asked them, "Gee. Is it possible [that] Cap Weinberger might have money in these accounts?" They said, "Well, yeah. Don't you know? That account number you gave us was Cap's!" In fact, they mentioned that a relative of Howard Metzenbaum, former Senator from Ohio, was another co-signatory to that account; that Weinberger had multiple accounts -- not implausible to me at all. I mean, here was Weinberger, Secretary of Defense throughout the Reagan era, during which we had one of the biggest defense build- ups in history. We also participated in the massive illicit arming of Iraq with high-technology weapons systems capabilities, plus the armaments themselves. It was an environment *fertile* for kickbacks. Payola. Corruption. And, in fact, Weinberger was eventually indicted by Iran-Contra prosecutor Lawrence Walsh for lying to Congress, for failing to turn over his diaries. He was pardoned by George Bush just as Bush was leaving office. And so he never had to stand trial -- which was probably a merciful reprieve for Colin Powell, who was Weinberger's chief assistant at that time, chief advisor. Weinberger had basically elevated Powell to a high-level advisory position, and Powell would have been effecting a lot of the orders that Weinberger was giving him -- about moving arms here, and drugs there. And in fact... Weinberger's name has come up in connection with a Costa Rican legislative investigation, a two-volume report down there that identifies Weinberger, as well as Ollie North, our former Ambassador to Costa Rica, and various others as being personas non grata for helping facilitate a massive drug and arms operation which helped corrupt that country's society. If those people set foot down there again, they're getting arrested. So suddenly it starts to make a lot of sense. And when you think in terms of Swiss bank accounts and massive amounts of money -- kickbacks -- it explains a lot of stuff that's going on right now. What we're looking at here is massive, endemic, high-level corruption of the federal government. Bipartisan. Democrats and Republicans. It's been going on for years -- particularly since the early 1980s. The dollars involved have grown exponentially... I believe from arms and drugs trading. There is *huge* amounts of money sloshing around here. And it has corrupted the government in a fundamental way. The government cannot police itself. The normal enforcement mechanisms have been compromised: the Justice Department. The IRS. Customs. The intelligence community. And what has happened is that there *are* a lot of good people in our government who have watched this happen, have been powerless to stop it -- their protests would go nowhere. There's been *no* effective investigation by anybody of this stuff. And finally, what had happened was, a small handful of guys -- they call themselves the Fifth Column. Retired intelligence people. One is a former CIA contractor. Another is a former National Security Agency person. I know they're assisted by a variety of other people of the intelligence community -- they were able to acquire their own used Cray supercomputer from Clark Air Force Base. It's apparently an air-cooled and generator-driven machine that can actually be packed into the back of I think what *looks* like a refrigerated semi-trailer truck with a satellite uplink. And they've got this thing rollin' around the country so it doesn't get nailed. And so for the last 5 years, they have been downloading, systematically, tapping into foreign bank databases and pulling down reams and reams of account data. [James Norman goes on to describe how this Fifth Column allegedly raided the secret bank accounts of corrupt government officials, transferring the money into U.S. government accounts.] For two years they've been raiding these accounts. Now they're into Phase II.... Phase I: "Take the marbles." Phase II: "Get them out of government." Now, how do you do that? How do you get these people *out* of government in the most time-efficient and cost-efficient manner? ... Apparently they've been hand-delivering brown manila envelopes to people in Congress with actual copies of the transaction records of these Swiss and other off-shore accounts. The people get about a day to read these things, and then they get a call from one of *these* guys who I have referred to as the "Angel of Death". And then the elected official gets a choice: ... You can either announce your retirement immediately, or you can face immediate prosecution for tax evasion and various other crimes -- the minimum penalty for which, if you are convicted, is 10 years in prison. Now when a congressman goes to prison, you lose your federal pension benefits. And the pensions on these people are significant. (For instance, Pat Schroeder, congresswoman from Colorado: relatively young, she's been there a long time... She's got, over her expected lifetime, more than 4 million bucks coming to her.) Now I think the implication here is that if you just shut up, go away, get out of the line of fire -- *maybe* you'll get lucky and get to keep your pension down the road. There's no guarantee that you won't be prosecuted. But what's happened so far: all of these people have taken the retirement option. And what you have seen: an unprecedented, record number of retirements of *powerful* people from Congress. These are not "back benchers"! Since the end of the last election, until now, more than 50 Senators and Congressmen have announced their retirement. In fact, there were two more in just the last couple of days: a 30-year Republican from Indiana, and a two-term Democrat from Arkansas. The excuses they give? *Utterly* *bogus*, frankly. "Oh, we can't stand the nasty politics." "Oh, I want to spend more time with my family." "Oh, it's just time to go." It strains credulity. It just does not make sense -- until you realize there's something *else* going on here. [...to be continued...] ----------------------------------------------------------------- I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation." ----------------------------------------------------------------- If you would like "Conspiracy Nation" sent to your e-mail address, send a message in the form "subscribe cn-l My Name" to listproc@cornell.edu (Note: that is "CN-L" *not* "CN-1") ----------------------------------------------------------------- For information on how to receive the new Conspiracy Nation Newsletter, send an e-mail message to bigred@shout.net ----------------------------------------------------------------- Want to know more about Whitewater, Oklahoma City bombing, etc? (1) telnet prairienet.org (2) logon as "visitor" (3) go citcom ----------------------------------------------------------------- See also: http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- See also: ftp.shout.net pub/users/bigred ----------------------------------------------------------------- Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt. Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et pauperem. -- Liber Proverbiorum XXXI: 8-9 Date: Wed Jan 17, 1996 11:58 am CST From: snet l EMS: INTERNET / MCI ID: 376-5414 MBX: snet-l@world.std.com TO: * David Beiter / MCI ID: 635-1762 Subject: Hackers Whack 45 Politicians Early Retirement [of Politicians] By James R. Norman Ain't it amazing! One after another in recent months, big-name U.S. senators and representatives have announced they are "retiring." Since the last election, a record 45 members of congress have decided not to run for relection -- or have outright resigned from office. Not in a hundred years has there been such an exodus. And it is not over: dozens of other lawmakers and powerful government leaders are privately hinting they may be leaving office soon. Nor are these departees the obscure back-benchers. They are among the most powerful people in the most powerful government that has ever existed on earth, with egos to match. Take a look at the list. Look at all the committee chairmen, or ranking minority members -- who would be committee chairmen if the Democrats regained control. Look at the powerful committees or subcommittees they are on: appropriations, rules, armed services, agriculture.... Look at the startling last-minute withdrawal of retired Gen. Colin Powell as a potential candidate for president -- a job for which many pundits had him pegged as a shoo-in. Common sense and history teach that people with this kind of power, pay and perks don't give it up easily or without good reason. But what are the lame excuses we get? Senators Sam Nunn and Alan Simpson claim they just don't have that ol' "fire in the belly" any more. A tearful Rep. Jack Fields of Texas, Republican chairman of the House Telecommunications and Finance committee, held a press conference to say he wants to spend more time with his kids. Veteran Democrat Rep. Patricia Schroeder says she wants to give up her $133,600 a year job to be a writer. GOP Sen. Nancy Kassebaum, chairman of the Senate Labor Committee and the daughter of GOP legend Alf Landon, wants to go back to her little farmhouse on the prairie. A common complaint the new retirees bemoan is the high cost of running for political office in this country. Without a doubt, campaign spending levels have been going off the charts: in 1992 the average House incumbent spent almost $1 million on campaign expenses. Senate incumbents averaged almost $2 million with some contenders, like tk Huffington squandering almost $20 million in his losing bid in California. Simpson whines that he has to raise $10,000 a day for re-election. "Retiring" Sen. Bill Bradley (D-NJ) outspent his last rival by 10:1 with a $10 million budget and still only narrowly won re-election. But these are crocodile tears. The reality is that federal incumbents CAN raise $10,000 a day easily, with just a few phone calls and meetings -- far more than their challengers can hope to garner. And the record shows that loose enforcement of campaign spending rules and creative accounting have allowed incumbents to run a myriad of personal expenses through their campaign accounts, from cars and plush office space to posh vacations. Only a third of what they raise actually goes for advertising. Then there are the fat "honoraria" and expense-paid trips for speeches, which can be turned into valuable PR as charitable gifts if they exceed $20,000 a year. And as Newt Gingrich has vividly demonstrated, huge payola from bogus book contracts is exempt from outside income limits. We are supposed to believe these retirees are getting off this gravy train VOLUNTARILY? Riiiiiiight. Schroeder already had her re-election bumper stickers printed. So had rakish Charlie Wilson (D-Tex.), who had already begun booking air time and newspaper ad space for his re-election campaign when he suddenly announced retirement to become a "consultant." Rep. Ron Coleman (D-Tex.), the up-and-coming young ranking minority member of the powerful House Appropriations subcommittee on telecommunications, stunned his supporters by announcing his retirement at what was supposed to be his re-election kickoff party. His excuse: To spend more time with his family. No definite plans. Uh huh. At best, these excuses are disingenuous half-truths. They utterly strain credulity. And given the sheer number of these "retirements," you don't have to be a rocket scientist to realize there is a pattern here. Something else is afoot. Nevertheless, the lazy, gullible, lap-dog mainstream media swallow this swill and regurgitate it, imbuing these transparent falsehoods with legitimacy. In recent weeks "60 Minutes," Time, Newsweek, The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times -- the big-deal media outlets that set the news agenda for the rest of the nation's wire services, newspapers and broadcast outlets -- have noted the unusual level of retirements, but then have explained it away as just a symptom of the nasty tone of public discourse these days. Especially now that those mean Newt Gingrich Republicans control Congress, it's no fun any more, the fawning press seems to say. Awwwwww! But if that was the case, why would so many powerful Republicans be leaving as well. Such as Mark O. Hatfield, chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee, or Veterans Affairs Committee chairman Sen. Simpson, or Rep. Robert Walker, a close confidante and ally of Gingrich who was almost elected House Majority Leader. All hold safe seats, and though Hatfield is 73, he's still young by traditional Senate retirement standards. For that matter, why did veteran Oregon Republican Sen. Bob Packwood, chairman of the powerful Senate Finance Committee, up and quit after agreeing to turn over his diaries? Was it really just for kissing female staffers in the elevators? Get real! There is a political hurricane brewing here and all of official Washington and the media are in an advanced state of denial. By the time Media Bypass published its early warning forcast in December, "The Still Before the Storm," a gale was already blowing. Before the magazine could be delivered, Colin Powell had battened the hatches and withdrawn from the presidential race, supposedly because of concerns about his wife's past mental condition. Since then, the pace of "retirements" has increased from a trickle to a steady stream. What's going on? As we said in December, you could call it a coup d'etat of a mortally corrupt government by a handful of vigilante computer hackers, formerly affiliated with various U.S. intelligence agencies. After years and years of watching the top echelons of leadership tainted with kickbacks on drug and arms deals, insider trading and other payola -- with no agency and neither major party having the guts to stop it -- this "Fifth Column" team has effectively taken it upon themselves to clean house. According to two reliable sources directly connected to this Fifth Column group, corroborated by multiple, credible, independent sources in or close to the CIA and other intelligence services, the clean-up began about two years ago. Phase One: Take away their marbles. Using the access codes and other data surreptitiously downloaded through "trap doors" in foreign bank computer software systems, the Fifth Column began wire-transfering money out of hundreds of supposedly annonymous foreign bank accounts held by U.S. government officials. The take so far is in excess of $3 billion. The money has all been repatriated to the U.S. Treasury, where it is said to sit in various regional Federal Reserve Banks escrowed for use by the CIA if and only if that heavily corrupted agency gets rid of its own rogue elements. Among the prominent names nailed for millions of dollars each, according to Fifth Column sources: Nancy Reagan, Henry Kissinger, Oliver North, Caspar Weinberger, Elizabeth Dole, George Bush and his sons, Maggie Thatcher.... And don't forget Vincent W. Foster, Deputy White House Counsel to President Bill Clinton, who supposedly committed suicide shortly after his Swiss account was raided in July 1993 for $2.73 million paid into it by the State of Isreal for high-level codes and other secrets Foster was suspected of selling (See Media Bypass, August 1995: "Fostergate"). Now Phase Two of the program has begun: removing the bad guys from office. Beginning last fall, according to two Fifth Column sources, somebody started hand-delivering to each of these retiring "public servants" their own plain manilla envelope. Inside: detailed transaction records of the culprit's Swiss, Cayman or other offshore bank accounts. Then about a day after receiving the envelope, they get a phone call from someone we'll just identify as the Avenging Angel. The options offered are simple. Plan A: Promptly announce your retirement. Plan B: face immediate, widespread distribution of the information to news media, enforcement agencies or directly to the doorsteps of your constituents. Oh, by the way, the minimum federal sentencing guideline on willful income tax evasion is 10 years in prison. Add to that possible jail time for bribery, money laundering and violation of federal financial disclosure rules. Any member of Congress sentenced to prison is subject to loss of his government pension, which acrues at the at the very rapid pace of 2.5% of yearly pay for each year served and vests in in just 5 years. For relatively young long-timers like Pat Schroeder that could be worth upwards of $4 million;almost $3.5 million for Rep. Gerry Studds (D-Mass.) Go ahead. Take your time. Think about it. You have 24 hours to decide. To a person, so far, these esteemed lawmakers have opted for Plan A. And from the Fifth Column perspective, a "retirement" announcement is about as good as an actual resignation. It immediately marks the culprit as a lame duck, not worth bribing any more and wielding much less power. And it does not preclude later prosecution or the eventual release of information. No promises are made. No deals. Outrageous! Undemocratic! Extortion! You say. But the better adjectives would be: dramatically successful, cost-effective and entirely in the public good When grilled about why anyone would go to all this effort and risk going to jail for breaking bank secrecy rules, the Fifth Column reply is: "BOC." Betterment Of Country. Is it legal? Is it "authorized" by some government agency? Well, no. But an army of honest civil servants long squelched from persuing this high-level rot are tacitly cheering from the sidelines. Attorney General Janet Reno is said to be fully aware of the effort, perplexed by it, but is keeping hands off so long as this Fifth Column team sticks to its commitment that there will be no deals cut and no favorites played. Besides, can you imagine a jury convicting any of these hackers of anything? They ought to get medals! What about Bill and Hillary Clinton? Let's just say they've got their own problems to worry about and the dust speck called Whitewater that the mainstream media is finally latching on to is probably among the least of them. Of course, from a journalistic perspective, what we'd like is full and complete disclosure with hard documentary evidence against these culprits. Above all, there has to be some assurance that All the bad guys get nailed with equal justice and that nobody will be able to "buy" their way out of a manilla envelope problem. But from the Fifth Column viewpoint, which holds the news media in justifiably low regard, it's the results that count. Not the PR. Premature release of hard evidence would make it difficult for the crooks to gracefully step aside under the guise of retirement. If cornered in broad daylight, they would have to stand and fight. That would be messy. Witness the Packwood fiasco. And costly: the average federal white collar criminal prosecution nicks taxpayers for more than $1 million. If vigorously contested, the costs can quadruple quickly. So if the goal is to get bad people out of positions of power quickly and cheaply, the best way is through persuasion. And the more who are persuaded, the harder it becomes for the holdouts to play tough. We're talking method, not just madness. There is, actually, a precedent for all this. It is called Bop Trot, perhaps this country's biggest and most successful effort at cleaning up public corruption. Focussed on state-level political corruption in Kentucky, the sweep used an elite task force of investigators drawn from various federal agencies, including the FBI, IRS, DEA and, yes, calling on the talents of some of the Fifth Column crowd. It began in the early 1990s and is still under way, having branched out to other states, including Illinois. In Kentucky, 65 public officials have been indicted and every single one has been convicted -- almost all of them by pleading guilty. Among those now in prison: the husband of former Kentucky Gov. Martha Lane Collins. But before the Bop Trot indicting began, there were a raft of resignations and retirements eerily similar to what we are now seeing at the federal level. Another curious parallel: virtually no media attention. Aside from some regional news coverage, almost nobody has heard of Bop Trot. Partly that is because the local U.S. Attorneys -- themselves often corrupt political appointees noted for their grandstanding antics -- have been kept mostly in the dark with the cases handled by special prosecutors. And aside from Media Bypass, talk radio and the Internet, there has never been any mention of the Fifth Column by any major national newspaper, magazine or TV network. Which is fine by us! Let those sleeping dogs lie. You have to be deaf, dumb and blind, though, not to see the other dramatic parallels looming all around us now, which further validate what our sources have been uncannily predicting for months and months. Consider: MEXICO -- Somehow or other, the Drug Enforcement Administration has found out about hundreds of millions of dollars in accounts in Switzerland, Luxembourg and England belonging to the family of Carlos Salinas de Gotari, the former president of Mexico, and DEA has apparently tipped the Federales. Salinas' sister-in-law was arrested recently when she tried to withdraw $84 million from a Geneva bank, believed to be a branch of Citibank. Was the DEA, not particularly known for its computer intelligence capabilities, itself tipped by the Fifth Column? All told, Citibank may have helped move half a billion dollars of drug money and other graft for the Salinas clan. Could that have happened without the awareness or even paid-for complicity of top bank officers? What is a matter of public record is that Citibank insiders have been dumping shares of Citi's high-flying stock like mad in recent months, symptomatic of either an expected stock price plunge or high level management departures. And in mid-December Christopher Steffen, the chief financial officer of Citibank parent Citicorp, abruptly left amid a curious smoke screen of lame excuses by the bank's PR department. Next to go, according to a Fifth Column source: Citibank Chairman and Chief Executive John Reed himself, the top dog at America's biggest bank. Something about gold bearer bonds in another Swiss bank.... Hmm. CANADA -- Former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney is under investigation by the Mounties over what appear to be kickbacks of C$50 million (US$37 million) on the sale of $1.8 billion worth of Airbus aircraft to Air Canada. The money apparently went into one or more Swiss accounts. Mulroney, who has tried to stymie the investigation by suing the Canadian government for libel for even asking provocative questions, may also be under investigation for much bigger payoffs from Columbia's Cali drug cartel, which had its computer data bases raided recently, according to a Fifth Column source. PANAMA -- It now appears likely that former Panama dictator Manuel Noriega, now in a federal prison in Florida, will win a new trial on his conviction for drug trafficking. The reason: Somebody with apparent access to those Cali cartel computer records discovered that the Cali's paid $1.5 million to the star U.S. prosecution witness against Noriega, whose supporters have long claimed Noriega was "set up" for prosecution by the Bush adminsitration to silence and discredit his claims of CIA and U.S. involvement in the Central American drug trade. Makes you wonder what other palms the Calis have been greasing all these years to protect their cocaine trade into the U.S. Gee, maybe we'll all know soon. SOUTH KOREA -- Both of the country's two past presidents are now in prison, accused of corruption. Chun Doo Hwan is charged with staging the 1979 coup that put him in power. He's also being questioned about a $133 million slush fund. His hand-picked succesor, Roh Tae Woo, is charged with running a $650 million slush fund of corporate "gifts." Translated to English, that's "bribes and kickbacks." If the money came from U.S. arms makers, like, say, Lockheed Martin, that's a crime for which corporate honchos can go to jail. Once again, the key was finding that money stashed in English and other bank accounts. Did the Fifth Column strike again? Gosh, that's hard to prove. It seems the Koreans just happened to get a plain manilla envelope with some very interesting bank records. JAPAN -- Similarly, rumors are swirling that Japanese Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama will soon resign amid a financial scandal brewing in that country. You don't think it's possible that Japan's opposition party got a plain manilla envelope with foreign banking records in it do you? Besides the corruption of Japanese politicians, it will be entertaining to learn who in our government has been on the take from the Japan, which has for many years maintained a massive, well funded lobbying effort here. Is it really plausible that both our neighboring countries, as well as our major Asian trading partners, could be so rife with high level corruption and yet the U.S. be somehow immune? Are our controls against corruption that much better than these other countries? Good enough to overcome the much greater incentive toward corruption here? Unlikely. It is only by willfully ignoring reality that we can pretend we are less suseptible to endemic corrption that other nations. And just as it appears those nations have needed help from the outside to root out their crooked politicians, so it is that the only way the U.S. government, polluted with drug and arms money, will be purged is by what amounts to vigilante, extra-legal citizen action. That's why we'd like to make our own modest proposal: Let's all become Fifth Columnists. The fundamental truth here is that no government can truly police itself. Whatever internal auditing mechanism that is set up can ultimately be intimidated and emasculated by whomever controls the purse strings (Congress) or does the hiring and firing (the chief executive). And forget about the press. They're whimps. If anybody's going to keep the bastards honest, it is US. You and me. Here is how we can do it, by just applying the same back- to-basics gumshoe tactics the IRS uses against us but is too gutless to employ against Congress and the White House. Find out what they own when they enter office, and what they have after they've been there a while. Chances are they haven't bought that million- dollar DC condo, the Martha's Vinyard summer place and the two Volvos on just their federal paycheck. First, write to the Federal Election Commission and ask for the required semi-annual financial disclosures of your senator or congresscritter. Then ask questions. Check real estate records, motor vehicle registrations, divorce pleadings. Stay tuned and we'll offer more ideas on becoming citizen sleuths. Then, if what you find doesn't match the official disclosures, send your findings to your local newspaper or TV station. Copy the FEC and the IRS. If you don't see prompt action, SEND IT TO MEDIA BYPASS, and be sure to include the name of whomever you sent it to first. As a certain Fifth Columnist is fond of saying: "If it is to be, it is up to me." Let's make that "We." Date: Wed Jan 17, 1996 11:12 pm CST From: bigred EMS: INTERNET / MCI ID: 376-5414 MBX: bigred@duracef.shout.net TO: * David Beiter / MCI ID: 635-1762 Subject: Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 7 Num. 04 The following is brought to you thanks, in part, to the kind assistance of CyberNews and the fine folks at Cornell University. Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 7 Num. 04 ====================================== ("Quid coniuratio est?") ----------------------------------------------------------------- RECAP OF AND UPDATE ON THE NORMAN THESIS ======================================== Thanks to an east coast source whom I will call "Mr. Mercedes", I have received an audio tape of Jim Norman's recent appearance on New York radio station WBAI, marked on the cassette as having been January 10, 1996. [...continued from CN 7.03...] Here are further excerpts from the program: CALLER #2: ...How is it exactly -- I remember when I heard this story first and I was talking to somebody about it and they said, "Well how can they possibly get into these bank accounts?" DR. MICHIO KAKU [Host]: O.K. Mr. Norman, how *do* you get into another person's bank account? JAMES NORMAN: Let me begin by saying that bank computer systems are nowhere near as secure as the banks would like you to believe... Granted, there are many security features built into bank communications and software systems. But in most large software systems there are what you call "service entrances" or "back doors" by which software maintenance people would get in routinely to fix "bugs" and so forth. If you take that concept, and then consider the idea that our intelligence agencies, which have an extremely high-priority collection of financial information, would somehow or other see to it that they have perhaps their own "back doors" plugged into these various bank data systems... *That's* how I got onto the story, actually, was the proliferation of a customized version of what was called the PROMIS software. This was, it was designed for tracking legal cases, originally, [then] customized for use in tracking wire transfers, sold and promulgated around most of the world's banking system, had "back doors" in it that would allow -- if you knew where the "back door" was, it would allow you to basically dial into a computer system and not leave an audit trail: go in, snoop around, pull down information, and then leave. DR. MICHIO KAKU: I think the key thing, at least from my point of view, is that we're not dealing with high school "hackers" who, by trial and error, and guile, try to get into somebody's bank account. We're talking about former intelligence agents. JAMES NORMAN: Right. But let me point this out: a couple of months ago, Citibank, there were published stories about how a "hacker" in Russia, armed with no more than a personal computer, apparently had got into Citibank accounts and was doing, essentially, exactly the same thing. He was wire-transferring money out of corporate accounts... to banks in Argentina and Finland -- always in small amounts so that it would not set off the internal alarm system... What I am told is that somehow or other, this guy got hold of the "back door" address at Citibank and was able to use it. CALLER #3: Mr. Norman, outside of WBAI, has word of this gone out? JAMES NORMAN: Actually, *this* *story* has become a classic case study in "guerrilla journalism". Because I think it's too hot for any mainstream media to deal with. I mean, it's just loaded with too many problems: first of all, it deals with a lot of background, "deep throat" kind of sources; the attribution, the documents are kind of non-existent at this point -- although I think they'll eventually come out. And you're dealing with a lot of big names and nobody really wants to rock the boat in a big-deal publication. Media Bypass, this little magazine in Indiana, *they* came to me and asked me if they could run the story, because they had heard that Forbes [magazine] wouldn't run it; that the Wall Street Journal and New York Times and everybody else I'd talked to about it was scared of it. *They* [Media Bypass] managed to corroborate a key element of it themselves. One of their investigative reporters knew a guy who used to train IRS agents, who was talking with one of his former students who was assigned to surveil Vince Foster at the time he died. And the guy actually read him some of the surveillance report, off the computer screen, over the telephone. And it's not that big of a secret, apparently, within the intelligence community. There was a *massive* counter- intelligence effort going on regarding Foster. It apparently began just after the '92 election, but before the inauguration in January '93. And for about the 6 months until he died, Foster was under pretty intense surveillance. There's a French intelligence newsletter which has also corroborated the fact that Foster was under counter-intelligence surveillance at the time he died. There's, Sarah McClendon has written about it. (She's an old "war horse" Washington correspondent.) But the story is just *too*... It's like the media cannot deal with this. And ultimately I think the media will be on trial as much as the government for not dealing with this story. Instead, we've got Media Bypass, we've got talk radio... And the Internet has actually become a rather successful outlet for this stuff. And in fact, it's amazing: it has brought a whole bunch of other people out of the woodwork, talking about this, including a lot of very literate computer people, financial people. And I know, particularly, a former Wharton finance professor, Orlin Grabbe, who has posted a series of his own rather revealing exposes' on this stuff. [CN -- Archived at ftp.shout.net pub/users/bigred/og] He, after leaving Wharton, started his own software company, making software for pricing derivatives. And the intelligence community came to *him*! And said, "Hey. Can we use your company to help spy on brokerage houses and banks too? We want some way to insinuate our people into these computer rooms." That's what sent *him* up the wall. He said, "Holy smokes, we're dealin' with the Surveillance State here." And I think he became a renegade ever since. Particularly, I think he's also angry about the government's tirade here on money laundering: it's used, basically, as a tax raising measure. I mean, they want to go after every little guy for any kind of cash transaction. But we have, you know, what is so outrageous about this is, you have a two-tier system: you have rampant money laundering, drug dealing and kickbacks for the privileged elite; and you have the government's boot on the neck of everybody else. So there's significant grass-roots rage brewing over all this stuff, and it's gonna find an outlet somehow or other -- even if it's just WBAI, you and me! DR. MICHIO KAKU: O.K. Well, let's hope it gets beyond WBAI. CALLER #5: It's obvious that Iran-Contra never stopped. But my question is, driving along the interstate I noticed that "Next Six Exits, the NSA." *Who* are the people at the top of the NSA? Who runs the NSA? Who are they, where do they come from, and how far-reaching is their power? JAMES NORMAN: That's a good question. You call up Washington and they say, "NSA? 'No Such Agency.'" That's their nickname. It's a *huge* bureaucracy. It's based at Fort Meade, Maryland. Their budget is bigger than the CIA and the FBI combined. Their job was originally signal surveillance. CALLER #5: Do we know who the people are, though? JAMES NORMAN: When you look it up... I tried to find out, actually, "Who runs the NSA?" They have a list in this two-inch-thick book on federal offices I've got. *They* merit about a two-inch thing that only has about six names associated with it. And I forget the top guy's name there. I think he's an Admiral who's on assignment to the NSA. [...to be continued...] ----------------------------------------------------------------- I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation." ----------------------------------------------------------------- If you would like "Conspiracy Nation" sent to your e-mail address, send a message in the form "subscribe cn-l My Name" to listproc@cornell.edu (Note: that is "CN-L" *not* "CN-1") ----------------------------------------------------------------- For information on how to receive the new Conspiracy Nation Newsletter, send an e-mail message to bigred@shout.net ----------------------------------------------------------------- Want to know more about Whitewater, Oklahoma City bombing, etc? (1) telnet prairienet.org (2) logon as "visitor" (3) go citcom ----------------------------------------------------------------- See also: http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- See also: ftp.shout.net pub/users/bigred ----------------------------------------------------------------- Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt. Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et pauperem. -- Liber Proverbiorum XXXI: 8-9 Date: Fri Jan 19, 1996 4:45 am CST From: bigred EMS: INTERNET / MCI ID: 376-5414 MBX: bigred@duracef.shout.net TO: * David Beiter / MCI ID: 635-1762 Subject: Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 7 Num. 05 The following is brought to you thanks, in part, to the kind assistance of CyberNews and the fine folks at Cornell University. Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 7 Num. 05 ====================================== ("Quid coniuratio est?") ----------------------------------------------------------------- RECAP OF AND UPDATE ON THE NORMAN THESIS ======================================== Thanks to an east coast source whom I will call "Mr. Mercedes", I have received an audio tape of Jim Norman's recent appearance on New York radio station WBAI, marked on the cassette as having been January 10, 1996. [...continued from CN 7.04...] Here are further excerpts from the program: CALLER #5: But aren't G.E. and Westinghouse and all the networks part of it? JAMES NORMAN: Well... Of course the government contracts out vast amounts of work to other countries. But the NSA, for sure, they do a lot of their work through "cut-outs" -- front companies. In fact, that's what this Systematics was -- which is now called ALLTEL Information Systems. (The CEO [Chief Executive Officer] of which just retired, mysteriously, at age 56, last week, and announced plans to go spend more time with his family.) That thing is about to blow up, because I think Systematics, in addition to helping the NSA plant "bugged" software in foreign banks, Systematics also functioned, I'm told (and this is corroborated by various *good* intelligence sources), for many years they functioned as sort of a "cyber bank" for covert funds. CALLER #5: What part did the major corporations play? JAMES NORMAN: Well... Let's put it this way: one of Inslaw's partners was AT&T. IBM was involved in this too. Apparently IBM does *lots* of business with the government and there's... I'm told, one of the applications of this PROMIS software is it was customized to track submarine sounds -- maritime sounds -- catalog the stuff, develop files on foreign ships... IBM was a prime contractor on that system. [...contention for who will speak...] CALLER #5: Ed Meese and Nichols had actually taken away from the owner, and that's who this [unclear] sueing. JAMES NORMAN: Well, Inslaw is sueing the Justice Department for damages. CALLER #5: 'Cuz the owner was a competitor with Nichols, who was a friend of Ed Meese. [CN -- Meese was Attorney General under President Reagan.] When they got to power, that was the deal: to try to get it away from him. Nichols, who worked for Wackenhut... JAMES NORMAN: Robert Booth Nichols, I think you're talkin' about, right? CALLER #5: And he was a friend of Ed Meese. And he was competing to put this system in for tracking criminals in Los Angeles. I believe the guy's name was "Campbell" or something like that, the one with the Inslaw... JAMES NORMAN: Bill Hamilton and his wife own Inslaw... CALLER #5: Hamilton! *That's* it. JAMES NORMAN: They... What happened was, the government was desperate to get hold of that source code so they could customize it and *re-sell* it, with the profits going into private pockets. Like cronies of Ed Meese. Particularly, there's a guy named Earl Brian who has this company called Hadron... Infotechnology. He owned UPI [United Press International] for awhile... He's actually under indictment in L.A. right now. He was [unclear] SEC [Securities and Exchange Commission] charges for financial manipulation. This stuff got customized and sold all over the place. *Robert* *Maxwell* was re-selling it, on behalf of the Israelis. Again: the object was to get this software planted into foreign intelligence agencies and particularly into foreign banks. It was basically a version of this software that went into Guatemala. Maxwell's front company sold this software to Guatemala, and basically it was used to help assassinate 30,000 civilians down there: catalogue 'em and find out who is an "enemy of the state" and... CALLER #5: We of the WBAI audience are quite familiar with this. But I'm much more interested in the players with the NSA who I think are really running the country. JAMES NORMAN: I think you're right. I *wish* I knew who the bad guys were. DR. MICHIO KAKU: Let me also say, for those of you who tuned in: the NSA [National Security Agency] is a very large organization whose budget is reputed to be something on the order of 10 times the size of the CIA budget. And they're, historically, involved with surveilling the Soviet Union. The CIA was mainly interested in spies on the ground and analyzing information. However it takes an enormous body simply to monitor what was happening in the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War, and that's where the NSA was set up. It's basically a surveillance organization. However, many people claim that it has since taken a life of its own and it is also part of some kind of secret government. JAMES NORMAN: The CIA reports directly to the President. It's a civilian entity. The NSA reports to the Director of Central Intelligence *through* *the* *Pentagon*. It's essentially a military function. And, in fact, it was made up of various elements of the Army, Air Force and Navy; their intelligence, signal gathering entities ultimately became NSA-type entities. NSA is also responsible for all of the government's activity in terms of encryption. And they're the guys who are behind all the Clipper chip and all that other kind of stuff. There's a healthy debate goin' on about this stuff. Everybody needs to talk about it. ----------------------------------------------------------------- I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation." ----------------------------------------------------------------- If you would like "Conspiracy Nation" sent to your e-mail address, send a message in the form "subscribe cn-l My Name" to listproc@cornell.edu (Note: that is "CN-L" *not* "CN-1") ----------------------------------------------------------------- For information on how to receive the new Conspiracy Nation Newsletter, send an e-mail message to bigred@shout.net ----------------------------------------------------------------- Want to know more about Whitewater, Oklahoma City bombing, etc? (1) telnet prairienet.org (2) logon as "visitor" (3) go citcom ----------------------------------------------------------------- See also: http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- See also: ftp.shout.net pub/users/bigred ----------------------------------------------------------------- Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt. Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et pauperem. -- Liber Proverbiorum XXXI: 8-9 Date: Sun May 26, 1996 8:02 pm CST From: bigred EMS: INTERNET / MCI ID: 376-5414 MBX: bigred@duracef.shout.net TO: Conspiracy Nation EMS: INTERNET / MCI ID: 376-5414 MBX: CN-L@cornell.edu BCC: * David Beiter / MCI ID: 635-1762 Subject: Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 7 Num. 98 The following is brought to you thanks, in part, to the kind assistance of CyberNews and the fine folks at Cornell University. Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 7 Num. 98 ====================================== ("Quid coniuratio est?") ----------------------------------------------------------------- JAMES NORMAN || WBAI RADIO || MAY 13, 1996 ========================================== James Norman was featured on a "Hidden Agenda" broadcast, hosted by Gary Null, on WBAI Radio in New York City on May 13, 1996. The following is an abbreviated transcript of that interview: GARY NULL: We will interview at this point a man named James Norman. James Norman is a journalist. He's been a journalist for many years. He was senior editor, specializing in stories about major companies, for Forbes magazine [and] the Auckland Star in Auckland, New Zealand. Also Business Week: he was a senior writer for them. And he was also bureau manager in Houston, Texas, bureau manager in Minneapolis, and senior writer in Stanford, Connecticut. He worked for the Oakland Press, the Ann Arbor News, and the Daily Telegram. He came across a story. And it's a story that won't go away. And we've decided to pursue it. But a little background on this: Normally, when I do a "Hidden Agenda" series, as I just did with Horowitz -- he had to send me hundreds and hundreds of documents. Because the statements he was making, for most people would be considered too extreme. And I can assure you that virtually all the documents, from official and government sources, are there. Or he wouldn't have got on the show. And similarly, when I first became aware of the story of James Norman, it was about a year ago. And many people said, "Why don't you have James Norman on the show?" So, I contacted James Norman, went over his information. But because it's not a single story -- it is a story with so many tentacles, it's like an octopus. And I thought, "Well, some of these stories are plausible. Some are not." And I said, "James, you're going to have to supply me with documentation." And I said, "Even with the best of intents, you may have been conned by some people." (Where you take a good part of the story, that you can hold your own on, and next thing you know is, they've discredited you on another; they've planted some misinformation.) So anyhow, back and forth, over a long period of time, I've met with James Norman; he supplied me with documents. And finally, he supplied me with one of his primary sources. I spent some time interviewing this primary source. And so I just want our audience to know that I am satisfied that many of the statements that you're about to hear *can* be corroborated. JAMES NORMAN: It is a rather infuriating cluster of stories, because it's not the kind of thing there is readily [available] documented evidence for. But it's the kind of thing where we've talked to an awful lot of people and had it corroborated verbally. And since this thing broke about a year ago, there's been consistently mounting bits and pieces of corroborative evidence that are cropping up. And unfortunately, the story has been rather predictive of events. The way it all started: I didn't set out to do some big investigative piece; I was just doing a story on an oil company bankruptcy in Connecticut. But it got into looking at various covert arms financing vehicles used by the government or people connected with it. And that got into the murky realm of computer software, and particularly to bank spying activities by our government. I stumbled onto what actually was a major effort that our country has had underway for about a dozen years to surveil foreign wire transfer traffic. (We've got people coming out of the woodwork now from the early Reagan years who were directly involved in this program; people from the National Security Council who helped set it up, and it's still ongoing.) What that led to, quite inadvertantly, was a connection to the Vince Foster case -- which a number of journalists have continued to follow. Because there's just so many unresolved issues. There's so many questions about the circumstances of Foster's death. Here's what we found out: at the time of his death, in July 1993, Vince Foster, who was a Deputy White House Counsel in the Clinton administration, was under some kind of investigation, surveillance, in connection with a counterintelligence investigation. He was suspected of selling secrets to a foreign government. What we were able to determine was, he had been tied in for many years on the periphery of this bank spying effort by our National Security Agency. He had been, for many years, connected as sort of a behind-the-scenes go-between, between the National Security Agency and a company in Little Rock, Arkansas -- a rather curious, secretive, bank data processing company called Systematics. (It's now changed its name to AllTel. They're a wholly-owned subsidiary of AllTel Corporation, the telephone utility in Arkansas.) But Foster, while he was at the Rose Law Firm, was in effect a sort of "handler" for that company. And that would conceivably have given him access to various sensitive kinds of computer code secrets, encryption stuff, [and] other insight into intelligence activities by our government. The way that Foster came under suspicion, according to sources that I've dealt with, was that he himself had a Swiss bank account [at] a former affiliate of the Banca Ambrosiana. (The Banca Ambrosiana had been a key target of "computer spooks" of our intelligence community who were very curious about the activities of that bank. It was closely tied to the Vatican Bank and was suspected of money laundering and other illicit money activities. In fact, when it collapsed there was a great cloud of secrecy about it. The head of the bank was found hanging from Blackfriars Bridge in London. The whole thing was surrounded with intrigue.) Apparently, from surveilling accounts within the bank, by "hacking" their way into that bank, they had come across many, many, many accounts: coded, numbered, off-shore accounts, belonging to hundreds of high-level government officials -- U.S. government officials, and other governments. And Foster was one of these people who they came across. He was suspected of selling secrets to the state of Israel because of the $2.73 million that was apparently in this account. Again: using this wire transfer tracking technology that our government had developed, they had been able to track the money, apparently, back to Israeli sources. And that was what was the beginning of this counterintelligence investigation. To sell state secrets on the side: that's called "espionage". And that's what we're talking about here, in terms of the nature of the investigation. We were able to determine that there were various entities of the government, various intelligence agencies, that were taking part in this surveillance. One of the key sources on this -- which we were able to corroborate various things he said with anywhere from half a dozen, to a dozen, to a couple of dozen sources -- is a fellow who is a retired CIA contractor by the name of Charles Hayes. He lives in Kentucky now. He is part of a small group of retired intelligence community guys who were associated with something that was called "Division D" -- which is actually mentioned in Bob Woodward's book, *Veil*. This group's job, in the government, had been to break into foreign computer systems, either physically or electronically. They [now] have access to what are called "back door", coded entryways into the software used in many foreign banks. Which allows them to circumvent the normal security systems around bank databanks. Which has allowed them, apparently, to surveil these foreign banks. GARY NULL: We're not gonna have time to finish this today. I want you to come back on the show tomorrow, so we can do a "part 2". I want our audience to know that this is just the *beginning* of his story. There are a lot of "cast of characters", including Hillary Clinton. And it's strong stuff. It seems almost impossible, but the documentation is there for a lot of this. I'm Gary Null. And if you'd like a copy of this show, just call 212-799-1246 and ask for the program with James Norman. We'll be back tomorrow. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + If you would like to know more about this explosive story, CN recommends the Orlin Grabbe material, currently archived at ftp.shout.net in subdirectory pub/users/bigred/og -- or use the http address, http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn.html to read it. ----------------------------------------------------------------- I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation." ----------------------------------------------------------------- If you would like "Conspiracy Nation" sent to your e-mail address, send a message in the form "subscribe cn-l My Name" to listproc@cornell.edu (Note: that is "CN-L" *not* "CN-1") ----------------------------------------------------------------- For information on how to receive the improved Conspiracy Nation Newsletter, send an e-mail message to bigred@shout.net ----------------------------------------------------------------- Want to know more about Whitewater, Oklahoma City bombing, etc? (1) telnet prairienet.org (2) logon as "visitor" (3) go citcom ----------------------------------------------------------------- See also: http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- See also: ftp.shout.net pub/users/bigred ----------------------------------------------------------------- Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt. Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et pauperem. -- Liber Proverbiorum XXXI: 8-9 Date: Mon May 27, 1996 5:48 pm CST From: bigred EMS: INTERNET / MCI ID: 376-5414 MBX: bigred@duracef.shout.net TO: Conspiracy Nation EMS: INTERNET / MCI ID: 376-5414 MBX: CN-L@cornell.edu BCC: * David Beiter / MCI ID: 635-1762 Subject: Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 7 Num. 99 The following is brought to you thanks, in part, to the kind assistance of CyberNews and the fine folks at Cornell University. Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 7 Num. 99 ====================================== ("Quid coniuratio est?") ----------------------------------------------------------------- JAMES NORMAN || WBAI RADIO || MAY 14, 1996 ========================================== James Norman was featured on a "Hidden Agenda" broadcast, hosted by Gary Null, on WBAI Radio in New York City on May 14, 1996. The following is an abbreviated transcript of that interview: GARY NULL: Hi. I'm Gary Null and I'd like to welcome you to our program: today, continuing our series on "Hidden Agendas". This series is meant to explore some of the areas where we have been told an official version of events, and our own, in-depth investigation or those of the guests that I have on, shows that the official version should be challenged. You are going to hear information today that you simply will not believe. However: after an enormous amount of effort to corroborate the evidence of James Norman, my guest, I can say that much of what he is about to say, at least *I'm* convinced, is true. [Null next summarizes info from the previous, May 13th broadcast. See Conspiracy Nation, Vol. 7 Num. 98 for background.] JAMES NORMAN: It almost makes your brain hurt to think about what's been going on here. But the essence of it is exactly as you say: we've been spying on foreign banks. GARY NULL: What happened was, when they were looking into these accounts, looking for terrorists supposedly, they also came across some major U.S. legislators: Senators, House members, who had *enormous* amounts of money. The question is: How did they get all this money in these bank accounts? Why this particular [Swiss] bank? And that gives us an idea why many of these individuals, as you'll hear in a few moments, have suddenly begun to retire in unprecedented numbers -- so they can "spend more time with their families". There's some big names involved: I mean *major* names. JAMES NORMAN: Once these fellows [rogue CIA hackers] were able to get into these foreign banks and identify accounts belonging to government officials, satisfy themselves that it was dirty money, they, by obtaining the authorization codes off of these accounts (and given that they were numbered accounts and that there were no signatures required for withdrawal), they have been able to effect technically legitimate wire transfers of this money. And according to my sources, the money has been pulled back to some kind of holding account at the U.S. Treasury, escrowed for use by CIA or the intelligence community if and only if the CIA gets rid of a bunch of its own bad apples. Vince Foster's account, which we mentioned on the earlier show... He was found to have $2.73 million in a Swiss account. That money was apparently taken out by this "Fifth Column" [rogue CIA hackers] group right at the time that Foster was scheduled to make one of these periodic, curious, one-day trips to Geneva that he was making. Now the Sunday London Telegraph has reported about these curious trips. Based on the findings of a private investigator in Arkansas, whose credentials have been spoken of extremely highly, this guy was able to find private American Express records of Vince Foster that showed he had been making these periodic, one-day trips to Geneva every six or eight months. And on July 1, 1993, he bought round-trip travel to Geneva and back -- but he cancelled that trip! He didn't make the trip. I'm told it's because he learned, in the process of making that trip, that the money had been taken out of his account. He cancelled the trip. And subsequently, he bought $2400 worth of travel to *somewhere*. We don't know where. He never lived to make that trip. His wife denies knowing anything about any of this. This apparently is when he found out he was under some kind of surveillance. *That* began this curious chain of events in the final weeks of his life, including a meeting on the eastern shore of Maryland with Webster Hubbell and other people from the Clinton administration that, in retrospect, clearly seemed designed to convince Vince Foster to shut up, "cop a plea", don't implicate anybody else. Because there were other people in the White House who were directly threatened by this investigation. Including Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton, at the Rose Law Firm, was an attorney-of-record for this company, Systematics: a bank data processing company, a front company for the National Security Agency, heavily involved in banking intelligence. And, as well, this company was, in effect, a "money laundromat" for covert funds that the intelligence community was moving around. It was sort of a well-known thing within the intelligence community that Systematics was, in effect, a "cyber-bank" for the intelligence community. Hillary was the attorney-of-record for the "bank" in 1978 when Jackson Stephens, the Arkansas billionaire who *owned* the company 100 percent at that time, fronting for Arab interests, tried to take over, on behalf of what were BCCI [Bank of Credit and Commerce International] people, tried to take over this Washington bank holding company -- then-called Financial General Bankshares, now called First American. (That's the bank that ultimately did come under BCCI control, with Clark Clifford and Robert Altman.) One of the stipulations Stephens had when he tried to make that acquisition was to bring in Systematics to do all the bank data processing for the multi-state holding company. The SEC [Securities and Exchange Commission] blocked that initial acquisition. Ultimately, we're told, Systematics *did* get involved with that bank after BCCI eventually was allowed to take control of it later on. Hillary, we're told by Foster in an interview in the American Lawyer magazine in 1992, developed an entire practice at the Rose Law Firm in intellectual property law -- mainly from immersing herself in the affairs of this company, Systematics. Clearly, she had more than a passing acquaintance with this stuff. When you talk about intellectual property law, we're talking about software licensing and extremely sensitive stuff like that. That raises a question: Could Hillary have been involved somehow in this espionage situation that Foster was being investigated for? Now I have no conclusive proof that Foster was guilty of espionage. All we know is that he was under investigation. He was under surveillance. What we *do* know is that his executive assistant, Deborah Gorham, testified under oath, in an interview by Senate investigators, that Foster had given her, shortly before his death, two, inch-thick ring binders of materials from the National Security Agency, which he had her put in Bernie Nussbaum's safe in the White House. Clearly, these were sensitive documents. And according to one Brookings Institution expert I talked to, and corroborated, one of these binders was *indeed* sensitive stuff and probably involved the codes and protocols by which the President would authenticate himself to the Pentagon in ordering military action. These are the kind of materials that Foster would have had no reason to have in the routine course of his duties as a Deputy White House Counsel. He did not have a high enough security clearance for them. He would not have had access to them. It would have required somebody that had access to the Oval Office or the Presidential living quarters to apparently even provide these things. *What* *was* *he* *doing* *with* *these*?? It's a question that has begged for an answer, or even to be asked in public in the official Washington hearings. So that has helped to put, over the whole Vince Foster case, a shadow of National Security Interests which helps explain the rather bizarre cover-up behavior of people in the government, and in the news media in particular, in failing to pursue the real nature of that case. What is becoming clear to me is that the political scandal here is so immense that the government just cannot come to grips with it. Have I seen any of the hard documents on these Swiss bank accounts? No, I haven't. And it's extremely frustrating to me. I keep talking to these sources. I say, "At some point you've got to let this out." In fact, what I've been told is that they *have* been turning over this information to Kenneth Starr, probably under some kind of a grant of immunity. There's a whole bunch of sensitivities here, questions: Could this stuff be used? Admissable as evidence? That's why there's been this basically extra-legal approach to the whole thing: get these people [e.g. crooked congressmen, etc.] out of office first, then eventually -- perhaps with a stronger Justice Department, willing to go after them -- they'll eventually be prosecuted. It's a heck of a way to do business. But, again... [laughs] I couldn't have made up this story if I tried! GARY NULL: Do you think Hillary Clinton will be indicted? JAMES NORMAN: Certainly if you "read the tea leaves" of what's been going on with the Starr, Senate, and House investigations, certainly it looks like indictments are rapidly approaching for the First Lady. Probably the first round would be on relatively minor obstruction of justice or banking-related infractions. The scenario I have been told by people who are involved in the investigations is that there will be an initial round of these kind of charges. Probably there would be pardons available. But maybe next year sometime, there could be a second round of indictments that would involve much more sensitive crimes, crimes against the state, potentially, for which there *may* be no pardon available. So the stakes here are extremely high. And we could end up with a situation much like Mexico right now, where their former-President Salinas is essentially a world wanderer, a man without a country right now, himself having been accused of being involved in maybe half-a-billion dollars worth of slush funds, stashed in CitiBank accounts in Switzerland. There's a lot of good people in the government. And in many agencies, I think there's an attempt now to try and finally get justice. I think that for years and years, good people have had to basically put the kibosh on investigations that would have got too close to high political figures. Now I think a lot of this information is coming out. And I think there is a serious effort to clean up the corruption in our government, which unfortunately has become of a giant magnitude: from kickbacks, payola on illicit drug and arms transactions, and who knows what. And unfortunately, the money involved now is so much more than it ever has been in the past. There has always been corruption; there will always be corruption. But the dollars involved now have become *so* significant that they've tainted almost everybody, it looks like, at high levels. And it's made it impossible to clean up the system. So that's why this "Fifth Column" group has resorted to this extra-legal approach. And I don't endorse it necessarily. But I have to say, "Hats off" to 'em. It looks like it's being dramatically effective. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + If you would like to know more about this explosive story, CN recommends the Orlin Grabbe material, currently archived at ftp.shout.net in subdirectory pub/users/bigred/og -- or use the http address, http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn.html to read it. ----------------------------------------------------------------- I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation." ----------------------------------------------------------------- If you would like "Conspiracy Nation" sent to your e-mail address, send a message in the form "subscribe cn-l My Name" to listproc@cornell.edu (Note: that is "CN-L" *not* "CN-1") ----------------------------------------------------------------- For information on how to receive the improved Conspiracy Nation Newsletter, send an e-mail message to bigred@shout.net ----------------------------------------------------------------- Want to know more about Whitewater, Oklahoma City bombing, etc? (1) telnet prairienet.org (2) logon as "visitor" (3) go citcom ----------------------------------------------------------------- See also: http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- See also: ftp.shout.net pub/users/bigred ----------------------------------------------------------------- Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt. Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et pauperem. -- Liber Proverbiorum XXXI: 8-9  [ This URL: http://www.pdxnorml.org/NORMAN.JIM ]